How much training is the minumum to serve ?

[Scoutfish]

Now,let me start out by saying : I am asking your OPINION!

Not facts, but OPINION.

 

I am NOT asking what BSA's minimum is, but what you'd like top see as a minimum amout of training to be a leader.

 

The very first training I took was BALOO. I was planning on being a Webelos den leaders and this class actualy was offered before leader specific.

 

Then I signed up for leader's essentials which changed into the online "This is Scouting" before it took plaace. Saved me some gas money .

 

 

Then I took my leader position specific training for Webelos Den Leader . A month or two later, that also became an online class.

 

Then our CM decided to step down after 6 1/2 years. Burnt out. BAD!

 

So I called the SE and asked about a CM class. Said I'd even pay for it if I could get oine fast. He told me that the online was just as good ( depending on instructor /student mindset) .

 

Granted, online Cub Master isn't a very hard course, but then again, how do you teach somebody how to think,lead or have enthusiasm in what they do? You can't! You either have it or you don't!

 

So, after taking all the CM stuff and even having a friendly "see what you know quiz" from a neighboring CM and the SE ( at my request), I decided that as Cub Master, I ought to have some training...even the very basic...for all the ranks below me.

 

So I took the online training for Tiger, Wolf, and Bear too. Honestly, I probably learned more as a very active parent in my sons' den and as an ADL for my son'r Bear den. But I get it, this training is really geared to the non experienced beginner than somebody who has already worked their way up through the system.

 

Last year, I contemplated taking Wood Badge. Had 3 or 4 Wood Badgers teaching tha BALOO class I took. One feller made it sound so freeaking fun, that I decided right then and there to take it.

 

But time under my belt has made me reconsider. That and reading posts in this site.

 

I'm thinking that: If Wood Badge is the Top Dog and end all of all training, then I should fill in tee spacebetween before that.

 

I really want to take IOLS. Sure, I don't really need it as a Cub Master, but it could be beneficial to assiting the Webelos Scoutsand the Webelos den leaders.

 

And then there is ...well, not sure what they call it now..WEBLET?

OWLT? Not sure. BVut would like to take that too.

 

 

So, I guess it is my opinion, that the CM and ACM should have training to cover all ranks of Cub Scouts that they are Cub Master too. Might have to step in for a DL or ADL is somebody gets sick or can't make it. Ought to have an idea about what makes that rank tick when making a decision about that rank.

 

So. What do you see as a mimimum that should be met for a top leader or just an adult leader in general?

 

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

the IOLS & the OWL is basically the same course but for minor differences.

 

IOLS teaches totin chit & OWL whittlin chit

IOLs teaches plant & animal Identification & OWL teaches 3 outdoor activity pins

 

so some people take the IOLS rather then the OWL since OWL is only recommended and IOLS will be required when you get to boy scouts (if you become ASM or SM)..

 

Some courses will offer a combined class in IOLS & OWL by adding the additional OWL pieces to their IOLS course.

 

Also I heard it was slated for this Fall, but got pushed back, but National is organizing a new course that will combine the 2 courses, so maybe by this Spring or next Fall that will be out.

 

I stayed in the committee, but I trained for all the SM required courses. I felt it was best to know what the SM & ASM had to think about in order to be of help to them. Also it became required for anyone in our troop who wished to go on events committee or ASM/SM or even unregistered parents.

[Eagle92]

'Fish,

WEBLET, OWL, or whatever they are calling the Webelos Outdoor leader training these day is about to get merged into IOLS. National was suppose to come out with a course this year, but it has been delayed.

 

Yo be honest if you look at the two courses, they are so similar it can be merged. So if it's a chocie between IOLS and WeLOT, go to IOLS.

 

 

my opinion is the following

 

TCDL specific

CSDL Specific ( either the one physcial course or two online courses, don't ask me why they split Wolf and bear)

WDL Specific

CM Specific

Committee Specific, esp if you need one

Hazardous Weather

BALOO

Safe Swim Defense

Safety Afloat ( if you have access to boats)

 

[Scoutfish]

Yep! Taken Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat.

 

Also taken:

Weather Hazards

Trek Safety

Climb on safety

Physical Wellness

 

 

I am thinking ,that for the moast part, "most" activities that involve water, climbing, etc...will be at a council camp or other similar type function with Council/distric appointed staff on hand to handle it.

 

Weather Hazards should be taken by ALL leadership if you ask me.

[gcnphkr]

For Boy Scout Leaders

 

Everyone:

Youth Protection Training

Fast Start

 

MC:

Troop Committee Challenge

Board of Review Training

 

MBC:

Merit Badge Counselor Training

 

ASM:

Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills

Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training

All the safety courses

Wood Badge would be good

 

SM:

All the above

Wood Badge

Strictly for Scoutmasters (Philmont Training Center course) in their first year.

[JFL49]

Scoutfish,

 

Go with your first impression after completing BALOO - take Wood Badge. Only then can you judge the accuracy of the comments of other posters.

 

And Wood Badge is not the end of all training. One of the important lessons of Wood Badge is that it is the BEGINNING of life long learning.

 

Wood Badge is a LEADERSHIP development course. It is not a course on running a successful outdoor program, although one objective of Wood Badge is to give you the TOOLS to runs a successful program.

 

So, take all of the program related training that you can before OR after Wood Badge.

 

Certainly, a successful SM, ASM, and Crew Advisor should take Powder Horn. And plenty of CMs have benefited from Powder Horn also.

 

Trainer's EDGE is a good course for any Unit Leader.

[Beavah]

Yah, I think this thread is just a bit off. Took me a few minutes to figure out why I felt that way.

 

I think it's da wrong question. I think the right question is "How much skill and ability is needed to serve?"

 

Lots of folks come with skills and abilities that are current, fresh, and well beyond what any training offers. Lots of folks take training and don't really develop the necessary skills. Maybe they should take training a few times, or maybe they just need more coachin' in the field.

 

Da thing is, when I see successful troops and great adult leaders, there's often not a particularly good correlation to training. The things that sorta stand out is how much they care and enjoy what they're doing, how well they are able to relate to and listen to kids, and how sound their outdoor skills and judgment are.

 

But if I were to answer Scoutfish's question, I'd say an adult scouter or at least the SM/trip leader for each outing should have enough skills and fitness to be able to do the outing activity in her or his sleep. Plus have enough first aid / bad behavior / "emergency" knowledge to deal with those things as they come up.

 

So if it's a car campout, the adult leader should have enough skills and judgment that the worst possible weather doesn't affect her or him in any significant way, that their LNT practice is sound, and they've got the first aid knowledge to deal with the parent who puts an axe into their foot or pours boiling water down their boot calmly and skillfully. If it's a canoe campout, they should have enough fitness and skill to be able to manage a canoe on their own if need be with complete confidence, be able to assist others, and exercise good judgment on the river.

 

If they don't, they should take whatever trainin' they feel they need, or hire appropriate outside leadership.

 

If I were to "require" specific training for Boy Scouting, it would be Wilderness First Aid and Leave No Trace Trainer, and maybe ARC Lifesaving for water stuff. But those only get at a few of the skills. There's really no good trainin' I can point to that offers "how to relate to teenagers and manage behavior", and no BSA training that's really adequate for developing outdoor skills from scratch. Better to find a college outdoors program or local outdoor club or somethin' like that to pick up those skills.

 

The last bit of course is "how BSA program works", but honestly I think pickin' up and reading the books is better than any of the training sessions.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[BadenP]

"but honestly just pickin up and reading the books is better than any training sessions"

 

Beav, you either have experienced many really bad trainings or you don't get the program.

There are those leaders with pre learned skills via the military, working in an outdoors position with parks, etc who bring a myriad of skills with them to scouts, but they tend to be few in number in the BSA. A guy who is an avid hunter for example may spend a good deal of time in the outdoors but his skillset may be disasterous to teach scouts about preserving the wilderness, wildlife, and LNT which he himself does not understand or practice. Your solution is simplistic at best and puts the boys in possible jeopardy.

[Scoutfish]

JFL49,

I only meant that I will wait until I take other courses before taking Wood Badge.

 

I get the impression that WB helps you organize, utilize and perform better at all those courses you have taken...but you have to take them to be better at using them.

 

Make sense?

 

[shortridge]

Don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think Beavah's "pick up the books & read 'em" comment was focused not on outdoor skills, but on learning how the BSA works. I'd have to agree. Most of what we need to know in that respect is written down someplace.

[JFL49]

Scoutfish,

 

The way I would characterize Wood Badge is similar to your words: WB helps you organize, utilize (skills) and perform better at your Scouting job. So WB skills don't necessarily focus on what you've learned so far; rather, it gives you the leadership tools to make you more effective in Scouting.

 

I assume you've seen your Council's flyer on Wood Badge. It's a pretty good summary of the course:

 

http://www.capefearcouncilbsa.org/images/stories/pdfs/SR-1075%20WOOD%20BADGE%20Flyer.pdf

 

My council goes into a bit more detail:

 

http://www.ctyankee.org/program/training/advanced/woodbadge

 

Of course, bottom line, you need to be comfortable that this is the right time to take Wood Badge. Since you are a cubmaster, I think you'll find that the leadership skills you learn and practice in Wood Badge will help you be a better cubmaster. And remember, Wood Badge consists of two phases: the practical phase (the 6 days over two weekends) and the application phase, where you put the skills you learned to use in completing a series of goals you set for yourself to improve you and your pack (the Wood Badge ticket).

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Well, your council's flyer is definantly better. Better explanation and what to expect.

 

Ours is just a (photo) copy ( I mean that in every sense of the word) of the actual application flyer they mail out.

 

You have to pretty much already know what it is. I have 3 flyers ......so far. (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[Beavah]

Don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think Beavah's "pick up the books & read 'em" comment was focused not on outdoor skills, but on learning how the BSA works.

 

Yah, exactly.

 

Not sure how yeh missed that I was suggesting proficient outdoor skills, proficient youth skills, and things like Wilderness First Aid and LNT Trainer as necessary, BadenP.

 

But when it comes to BSA program stuff - da advancement program, troop organization, how to fill out a Tour Permit, that sort of thing - it's just as easy to read about it.

 

Da problem is that the BSA training isn't sufficient to reach the skill set you and I both feel is necessary to avoid putting the boys "in possible jeopardy." Seriously, who would trust a beginner kid in the woods with a fellow who had only had a day and a half IOLS course?

 

B

 

[Gary_Miller]

Cub Scouts

 

To get started

 

Youth protection

Fast start

Read the handbooks

 

ASAP

 

This is Scouting

Leader specific

 

In order to do outdoor activities

 

BALOO

Hazardous Weather

Health and Safety Training

 

To stat proficient and become a better leader

 

Roundtables

Pow Wows/University of Scouting

 

In order to be the best leader you can

 

Any other supplemental training offered

 

 

[BadenP]

Beavah

 

I agree with you and stand corrected. It also shows just how inadequate most BSA training is to the task at hand, and National is just making things worse with online basic, whats next online IOLS, WoodBadge, or even rank advancement? Mazzuca doesn't seem to care since in his own words,"Scouting is not about setting up tents or camping in the woods." At this rate the Girl Scouts and Campfire will get more camping experience than the Boy Scouts, ahhh the world of the future, lol.