Advice in how to organize

[boomerscout]

I am glad you did not run screaming into the woods. If I remember correctly, this was thrust at you without much lead time for prep and organization.

One mistake was "people started arriving at 7 am, so you put up the sawhorses and tables". Next time, start volunteering some of these people; have them put up the tables, etc.

As you've learned, no man can well serve two masters. Your trainees were part your students and part camporee Scouters. Next time, just say no; nothing bad will happen to you

[Jeffrey H]

I just participated as a "student" earlier this year in our District's OLS course. The one thing I remember is that we had to clean our own plates, cups, and utensils. We also had to cook and were assigned to the meals that we would help prepare and cook. It was hands-on training literally the whole weekend.

 

Reading your post, it sounds like you did all the dirty work.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

IOLS IMHO should be nearly as big a deal as Wood Badge..... well at least half as big a deal anyway. It really requires a big staff and a CD. It also needs to be done with long range planning. Sounds like you were thrown under the bus, don't let that happen again! In the front of the training guide there is a timetable to doing this course; follow it more or less. Set the date for next years course and assign a CD this week then fill in all the other staff asap. Make the course hands on learning. Have the participants model real patrols for the course, camping together (if possible) but surely cooking and eating together as a patrol as well as cleaning up using the methods in the BSHB. It may be helpful to get to know the OA Chapter Advisor for your district and get him/ her to ask Arrowmen to help staff your course. I did this in the course I chaired last spring and the participants really liked the interaction. This also helps to teach the participants who should be in charge anyway. Although doing this course in a Scout Camp might seem like a great idea the camp's dining hall should really have no part of the course. These leaders should be expected to be prepared for the weather and should be able to function in the outdoors even in rain, although being smart about major storms could change your plans.

 

Back to my opening statement..... We do ours on a three day schedule; 3-4 hours on a Thursday followed by an actual campout Friday and Saturday. Like a WB course there is a need for many staff members and a long range plan where to give the participants the best quality training lots of little things need to happen. As Lisabob mentioned teachers understand the logistics but unlike her point there are lots of other folks with these same skills. Find one with these skills and get them to agree to be your CD.

[shortridge]

I may have said this before on an earlier thread ... but it's worth repeating ... talk to your local camp director or program director about recruiting camp program staff who are in the area or may be going to college nearby. They may have a spare weekend free, and I can almost guarantee you that for a bunk, shower and a couple of meals, they'll be more than happy to come help you out, especially if it's at their home camp.

 

Ask about Scoutcraft and Nature/Ecology instructors, as well as anyone who works with the first-year camper program. If there's an NCS-trained area director around, you've got your next course director candidate right there.

[Eamonn]

" I will need to look for people willing to stay and support the training for more then their 45 - 60 minute training session."

 

This might mean that you could run the risk of losing your best presenters.

It is far better to have a team of people that will look after what needs to be done along with a team of presenters.

I'm sometimes asked if I would attend a training and cover a part of the syllabus. When I'm free I'm more than happy to do so. What with work and things at home, I'm not so willing to give up an entire weekend.

We are very fortunate in having a group of Campmasters who enjoy taking on the role of QM.

They enjoy spending time with each other, shooting the breeze. They also enjoy sharing what they know with the participants, but are very hard working and do get what needs to be done, done. The participants see and know how much these guys do, they also see how much fun they are having. All of which adds to the overall course.

Ea.

[moosetracker]

I did have some time. I took on this job late spring, just as school let out. But, our council stops having roundtables, and council planning meetings and most units stop for summer break. So having people to learn from and going out to meet people was not an option. The first round table after summer break was the first time I met with some of the trainers (they don't like to meet). The first council planning was 3 days before my course started. I had asked over the summer to meet with the council training chair, but she was busy with family issues.

 

 

Ok what would you recommend as needed "extra" staff? These positions are just not stamped out. And in the feeding them for the weekend, do they pay for their own food, or do you try to roll that into the fee of the participant?

 

 

I heard

Course director - I guess this person would line up the people to staff the event. I do think I had one, although we were both clueless. I had someone to ask the trainers who wanted to do what training. (All I got from my predecessor was a list of names, and nothing on what they taught..) When no one volunteered for the position she asked the trainers for other names of people who had done that skill in past and called them. Then we had a few around the 2-3 weeks before backing out of what they committed to doing, thats when I got involved trying to help her find last minute replacements. We even had one person back out the Friday the night before the course was to start. This person also contacted the participants during the week before the event, putting them in patrols and giving them email to organize their patrol equipment. The one thing we did not know was staff meant more then the trainers. (As stated, both of us were clueless).. During the course though she was a participant, being a new ASM.

 

Quartermaster - Takes care of the equipment needed..? Like they would have been responsible for the garage tent, fire pit and tables.. (Staff cooking equipment or job of the chef???)

 

Kitchen staff - (how many)? They do the Cooking & cleanup for the staff not the participants. Or do I just choose a chef and have them staff it.. (do they bring the staff cooking equipment??)

Someone else mentions things like an SPL,ASPL etc.. do I need that? From what I hear having 26 participants was a LARGE class, normally I many only see 10-15.. So I don't want my staff being more then my participants in numbers. If my staff is larger then the class or even equal to, I definately will need to asking them to pay for their own food.

 

I did have a Troop guide.. It just worked out someone who had taken it before, wanted to retake it. He also did the training for first aide & flag ceremony. Anyway, I just thought it would be fun to make him a troop guide. Good thing too because I had no time to interact with the participants.. So he saved the day doing that piece for me.

 

 

I am looking into offering the "demonstrate out" option for those who have the IOLS skills, and pulling those who are taking the class but know it all (and are bored) out of the IOLS course, then maybe slowing it down for the participants, I would like to have a class meeting either the weekend before or what not. Maybe with that I can teach what they need to know before coming in site selection, and patrol meal planning etc.. then give them time to organize their patrol gear & maybe one of the meals. I am iffy about that, because if I make the course longer then other districts, I may get district hopping for those who don't want the longer course.

 

[Eamonn]

moosetracker

When I read:

"The first round table after summer break was the first time I met with some of the trainers (they don't like to meet)."

I get worried.

Without effective communication, your lost before you even start.

 

Never be afraid to ask people to pay their way. If these people stayed home they would still have to eat. However it is a good idea from the get go to establish how people are going to get repaid for whatever money they spend out of pocket. They of course do need to know what is allowed and what isn't. Having a budget ahead of time which you share with everyone can avoid some un-needed unpleasantness down the road.

In the Council I serve all fees are paid to the Council. So when it comes to anything to do with cash this all goes through the DE. (This and all the photo-copying)

Who cares if the staff out-number the participants? I remember one course (The old Train the Trainer) Where we only had four participants and a staff of 16! -It was a great course.

If I were you, I would present the course as it is written, without any shortcuts or additions.

When it comes down to staffing the course.

Select one person to be the course leader.

It's a good idea to do this as early as possible. A year or eighteen months ahead of time is not too early.

This selection needs to be given a lot of thought.

You need someone who:

Is trustworthy. Not going to let you down at the last minute.

A good communicator. Someone who will return phone calls and emails and has the gift of the gab.

Who is well known and well liked in the District, The type that people will want to work with and for and who they respect.

That you know you can get along with.

While he or she doesn't have to be an expert or expert in every area, does tend to know the stuff that the course ill cover.

The list could go on!

Working with the District Committee find a date or dates that will work. Remembering that most Districts make the District calendars go to press about six months ahead of when they start.

As a District Training Chair. You should attend the Council Training Committee Meetings, don't be afraid to tell the Council what you need and when you will need it.

The Council should be able to supply A/V equipment, Patrol Boxes, Dining flys, tables, chairs. We had participants bring their own tents, but the council should be able to muster up a few spares. They should also be able to provide sharp edged tools, rope and a camp ground. You need to get your dates in as early as possible as dates fill up fast.

Once you have selected your CD, plan to spend an entire evening with him or her. Go over the syllabus page by page, session by session to ensure that you are both on the same page. As you do this get a feel of who is going to be asked to do what and make a note of who they are and who is going to do the asking.

Plan to meet as often as you both think you need too, but nearer the date you will need to be in contact a lot!

For the outdoor training course we always had one Troop Guide assigned to each patrol. They remained with the Patrol all of the time except at meal times.

The Patrols cooked their own meals with food provided by the course. The Staff meals were cooked by the QM Staff. One member of the QM Staff was the Grub-master, he or she working with the CD and within the budget was responsible for purchasing all the food and dividing it up for each patrol. We found that having 3 or 4 QM's worked out well, even when they might be asked to cover a presentation.

Much of the work they need to do is done before the participants arrive. Our guys sorted the Patrol Boxes (Provided by the Council that are used for Wood Badge courses and youth training courses. They put up the dinning fly's for each Patrol with a table and chairs for each patrol.

The syllabusss will determine how many presenters are needed. The CD will know how many are going to stay and who will come do their presentation and then leave. Having lots of different presenters is a good thing. It helps you in your selection of the next CD and brings in new blood. (Don't fall into the habit of allowing the same old group of good old boys do everything. This will one day bite you on the tail.)

When planning a course remember "Be Prepared" Look at what might or could go wrong and plan for it. It is an outdoor course, but having an empty building available "Just in case" is a good idea. Having an extra QM in case a Troop Guide can't make it is a good idea.

Have the District Chairman invite your CD to the District Committee Meeting a month before the course. Have the CD give a full report about the course to the committee, who is doing what and what needs to be done.

The District Committee if they are any good will want to ensure that anything and everything that bears the District name is a success. They should be willing to help or know people who can help.

After the course give a full report to the District Committee. Be honest! Tell them what worked and what didn't. Include a financial report. This will help the person who does this the next time.

I know I have missed out a lot of stuff about publicizing the course and training the staff, covering things like what uniforming is and isn't acceptable, campfire planning and so on. But a good deal of this is covered in the syllabusss.

Hope this helps. - Good Luck.

Ea.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Thanks, I learned a lot from this. I think most people move into DTC after having been on the training staff, and knowing whats what.. I walked in totally green..

 

When I took this job, I was told by the DE and the DCC that:

1) They had run for years without a training chair and could continue to do so. But if I wanted the job that was fine.

2) They wanted someone in the position who did the paperwork, but had little to do with the training sessions as they were self contained & running smoothly. Maybe I could come to just verify all was running well.

3) I defiantly did not need to find any more trainers, they had all the volunteer trainers they could handle.

 

I did get a training session on how to be the training chair, but again I think it was aimed at assuming you came in with some knowledge. I knew I was to get a course director, but what they did was unknown. So I assigned my new Vice district training chair the position who is new & young. Gave her a list of the trainers in the district (which was much smaller then I imagined given we were to have an over abundance). No list of who did what. And said she could staff,(to which staffing meant the trainers for the skills) then organize the participants the week before into patrols and get them to organize their patrol gear.

 

I tried before summer break to get the training staff to meet. Per the training I got I knew I was already late with organizing. No one wanted to.

 

Few on the staff list responded late spring/ early summer to email asking what they could do for the training. I was told it was too early for them to think about it. It would all come together in the Fall. Being so new I worried about this procedure, and felt it needed changing but was caught with no way to figure out how to change it over summer break.

 

I just kept being told not to worry, I was trying to do things too early, and to relax and watch it all come together.

 

I dont think our council has all that you mentioned to loan us. I did ask about tables, but it took about a month and 4 emails to get a positive response, but we needed to pick them up. By then we had come up with plywood tables, and although not as nice, they would be not a bulky to transport as the tables would be, and we were already worried about fitting all we need to into our vehicales. I do know they have laptops & projectors for the other types of training, but that seems to be all they are comfortable with providing.

 

I also do go to our council training meetings they are held bi-monthly and there was a 5 month gap between the first one I attended and the next one, due to summer break. The 2nd one was 3 days before my IOLS training, and a little late to figure out what I didnt do. I was just going to go for it.

 

As stated I also did try to get to meet with the council training chair, but she had personal family problems she was attending to, and as stated I believe she is winding down, so she was not any more interested in meeting with me then my training staff. Although she did appoligize for not having the time.

 

So I guess I got to learn the hard way!

 

Again Thanks, as I know have information on how to correct my errors in the future.

 

[Scoutfish]

I have one thought that may save time, supplies and effort:

 

When I took BALOO, there was a cooking demo. But the food used in the demo WAS OUR LUNCH!

 

We watched and participated in cooking our own lunch.

 

The benefit to this is;

 

1) If my food tastes bad - it's my fault.

2) When I clean up my plate, I am cleaning up my part of the demo.

That's less work for you.

3) There is that much less food to carry to camp.

4) You are not cooking/setting up for a class AND lunch. One is the

other. Half the work right off the bat.

5)Have the students help clean up. It's okay to say that the demo is

not over until everybody cleans up.

 

Basically, during the cooking part of my BALOO class, the cooking instructor just had stuff set out on the counter. We had to get outr stuff out of the containers (or trays) and assemble our "tents" . We put our food in the fire and we talked about various cooking ideas, tips, suggestions while the food ewas cooking. The instructor put away unused food at this time while students cleaned up the counter.

 

When the food was done, one of the fire building instructors coolected the pre marked tents and called out thenames on them. We ate our food while the instructor talked about food relate stuff. All trash went into the trash cans/recycle cans.

 

When we were done eating...everything was all clean and finished.

 

The instructor may have had to wash a knife or two...but that was all.

[Lisabob]

hey moose, just don't beat yourself up too much. Despite all the discussion, it sounds as though your course was successful in the eyes of the participants - and that's ultimately the point. So you laugh about the craziness on your end of things, you learn a little about what you'll be doing differently "next time," and you start looking ahead to the spring IOLS course. Hang in there!

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Yeah...What Lisa said!

I did meantop add ( but forgot) soundslike you still pulled it off and was sucessful as far as all the students were concerned.

 

That alone is a great accomplishment: You overcame obsticles and adversary and still completed your class.

[moosetracker]

Yes, I think they did learn alot and enjoy themselves (most).. I did have a few who could have "tested out", or "run the course", that were a little bored.

When I had problems finding staff for the course I had a feeling some of my partipants would have the skills to teach, but I didn't know who.. just a gut feeling.

No way to put out a blanket statement of "Hey participants, were going to have a fun time, but are missing our cooking demo trainer, and plants & animal trainer.. Can any of you do that for us??" and at all look like we were in control of the situation..

But, yes we had some people in training, who could have done a fine job of those two skills.

But over all, they had a good time, but did notice I was "working like a dog" as some of them commented on it. A few did come out of training to help me (those who could have taught the course).

 

I also did get alot of names for new trainers to IOLS. I do need to also look for some new ones for the specifics, especially cubs, but I am also waiting to see how much we will need to staff those once on-line is in place. I have one coming up on the 23rd and only two cub scout leaders have signed up for it to date.

 

I am unsure if I will do a spring IOLS, as I haven't started organizing it (it was not on the calendar) and will already be behind in organizing. I think all my neighboring districts should offer it since they didn't have a Fall course. I am thinking about trying the BALOO training in the spring though, and trying a "test out" for IOLs both will have some of the IOLS coordination, but not as much, and I can try changes in organization out in the smaller courses this spring.

[The Blancmange]

 

No way to put out a blanket statement of "Hey participants, were going to have a fun time, but are missing our cooking demo trainer, and plants & animal trainer.. Can any of you do that for us??" and at all look like we were in control of the situation..

I laughed when I read that.

 

By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

[Eamonn]

moosetracker,

I think if I were in your shoes, I'd skip the spring training. Explain to the District Committee that you just don't have enough time or the Training Team in place as yet to offer it.

With any luck, this might act as a wake up call for them.

Also when it comes to selecting and asking people to join the team or help out at with training's. This is your baby. You need to do this yourself, don't pass it on to anyone else.

I found that having people think that they were doing things for me personally and helping me out worked best. To this end it is always better to ask someone one on one in person. (Even if it means making an appointment and visiting them at home.) Rather than sending out emails or sticking something in a newsletter.

There really isn't a lot of paperwork involved with training. I was happy to let a DE take care of the paperwork. But after a course I'd check with the Council Registrar to make sure that the attendance sheet had been turned in and the participants had been credited for the course on Scoutnet.

While some people moan and groan about attending training. I found for the most part once they are there, they have a great time and do have fun.

We at times allow the having fun and having a good time mask the fact that what we offered just wasn't that great. We owe it to the participants and the Scouts they serve to offer the best training's that we can. Most times the best way to do this is easy! All you have to do is follow the syllabus. Maybe after you have four or five courses under your belt, you can think about a little tweak here and there. (If I remember right. I made the wildlife ID part of the hike, with the Troop Guide that was assigned to each patrol covering it. Of course before the hike we went over with the T/G what they might be looking out for. We also moved some of the Friday night stuff around because of people arriving at different times.)

While it sounds great that people come away saying that they had a great weekend. The goal should be that they come away saying that they had a great weekend and learned a lot and maybe saying that they can't wait to attend Wood Badge?

Like it or not. You are the person (As Training Chair.) who is responsible for all of this. The buck does stop with you.

Ea.

 

[moosetracker]

Thanks,

 

Yep I am already gearing up for next Fall (not spring). Like I said, all my neighborhood districts should be doing that since they didn't have one this Fall. I have already started asking when our Fall Camporee is (to avoid that date).. And calling the BSA camp to figure out if their is a charge to use the campground for district training (there isn't). I am also looking into who would make a good Course director.

 

I am now somewhat confused by the suggestion to find myself a course director, and also to find all the staff myself. I definately feel I should find trainers and give the course director some information on good trainers. Then I figured we would work together on staffing because he may also know of people who would be excellent who are not on my list. But I thought with a course director, they should also have a say in the staff with who he would like to work with.

 

I was waiting for IOLS to be done, so I can concentrate on going out and meeting some of the Packs & troops in my district. I definatly want to meet the Troop that tried to organize the cooking Demo for me with 2 weeks notice. Seems like they were really trying to move mountains to make changes to their camporee plans, and even started inviting others they knew outside their troop to fill in. I think they really were excited to help out, but I just couldn't see burdening them with not enough Adult coverage for their troop during the camporee. I really would like to see if I can find my next course director from this troop. Like I said they really impressed me in the way the were gung-ho to step in last minute to help organize..