Common Wood Badge course - Good Idea?

[sherminator505]

I have stated in other threads, I am not completely enamored with the BSA's current use of the Wood Badge for the 21st. Century (WB21C) course. Now I'm not saying that it's not a useful course or that the course content isn't valuable to Scouters. But I do feel that this course should be placed in its proper perspective.

 

WB21C is an encapsulated course in leadership skills. It is not a true capstone course for Cub Scout leaders, nor is it a capstone course for Boy Scout leaders or Venturing leaders, as it does not attempt to serve as a continuation of the previous courses that these Scouters have taken on their respective training tracks.

 

I believe that this training methodology is terribly flawed. Cub Scout leaders need advanced training that will help them become better Cub Scout leaders. Boy Scout leaders and Venturing leaders have similar but different needs. This is why I have BIG problems with a common WB21C course.

 

Reflecting on this, my minds turns to the 20 TOOLS in the 1947 Handbook for Scoutmasters. I think that a week-long immersion of Boy Scout leaders in the 20 TOOLS would be far more valuable than WB21C. A similar BUT DIFFERENT course could be developed for Cub Scout leaders, and a third for Venturing leaders. I feel that such a setup would be far superior to what we've reduced ourselves to with WB21C.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Eagle92]

Could you expand on the 20 tools?

[JoeBob]

Sherminator,

 

I'll probably never take WB21C. After probing beaded individuals face to face, and contemplating all the opinions expressed on this forum; I've reached the conclusion that WB21C is a leadership course aimed at retaining leaders in the BSA after their sons age out.

 

And I really could use some more in depth material on being the best CM I can be. The position specific training was well intended, but shallow. Right now I need a good resource for pack games that involve 65-plus cubs in a cafeteria. After the various relay races, what is there? Roundtable?

 

There is definitely a vacuum in the training curriculae.

 

JoeBob

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

"A similar BUT DIFFERENT course could be developed for Cub Scout leaders, and a third for Venturing leaders. I feel that such a setup would be far superior to what we've reduced ourselves to with WB21C."

 

I agree with the need for three advanced programs, the key issue I beleive is having staff that could provide the three disparate programs of training.

 

I think thats why we ended up with what we have, staffing issues

[infoscouter]

JoeBob - check out your council's PowWow or University of Scouting - look for a course on Cub Scout Pizzazz. To jump up farther - Strictly for Cubmasters at Philmont is the way to go.

[Kudu]

The Scoutmaster's TOOL CHEST

 

Tool 1Setting Out with the Troop

Tool 2Chartering and Registration

Tool 3Patrol Leaders' Training

Tool 4Patrol Recognition

Tool 5Financing the Troop

Tool 6Troop Equipment

Tool 7Troop Meeting Room

Tool 8Troop Records

Tool 9Uniforming the Troop

Tool 10Program Themes

Tool 11Games and Projects

Tool 12Troop Hike Ideas

Tool 13Wide Games

Tool 14Ceremonies

Tool 15Scout Drill

Tool 16Singing

Tool 17Story Telling

Tool 18Troop Mobilization

Tool 19Literature Helps

Tool 20Scout Requirements

 

Yeah, Sherminator505, the 20 Tools are what William Hillcourt called the "Real" Patrol Method!

 

Tool 3 is Patrol Leader Training, the real-world (backwoods) leadership course:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

 

Staffing was never a problem for Boy Scout Wood Badge.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

 

 

 

[sherminator505]

Kudu, you beat me to it! In the 1947 Handbook, a section is devoted to each of the tools. For example, "Setting Out with the Troop" involves the steps involved in starting a new Troop.

 

OGE writes:

 

"...the key issue I beleive is having staff that could provide the three disparate programs of training.

 

I think thats why we ended up with what we have, staffing issues"

 

There are two remedies I can think of right away. The first is pooling of resources amongst councils. This is already done in my area in regard to Commissioners' College, and it has proven to be workable.

 

The second is actually developing a corps of trainers with the required expertise. This goes beyond simply putting on Trainers Development Conferences or Trainer's EDGE courses. It involves recognizing trainers as having a distinct job in the district/council as Trainers. Recognitions or Key-type awards for trainers might also be helpful. Apparently National is studying this, but they have announced nothing concrete at this point.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Kudu]

The way I heard it was that Cub Scouter participation in training has always been a problem, so they combined the training and aimed Wood Badge at the Least Common Denominator.

 

Supposedly Wolf Den Leaders who glue macaroni to paper cups and Patrol Leaders who take their Patrols camping without adult supervision both use the same "Leadership Skills."

 

Yours at that 300 feet,

 

Kudu

(This message has been edited by kudu)

[ScoutBox]

Having just finished WB, I see the problem with Cub Leaders and the course. Many were not up to par on camping, and outdoor skills. Most of the BS Leaders were. I know that a better program needs to be had. I for one am un happy with the current Sm Handbook. I use several older ones to prepare PL Training. As the new one gives nothing for this."Not that I have found at least". I'd like to see more in this area, as this is one of the most important aspects towards the Boys and the Troop I can think of. Once the boys are trained and doing the job of leaders, then the Patrol Method, and Boy Lead is truly in force. As of the past year I've been with my Troop, there is no sign of this.. And the leaders from the past never did anything about it. That's why this is one fo my Ticket items from WB. A Outdoor, and Training the Boy Leadership Course needs to be had. It's weird that National has no idea of this, nor the fact that the new SM Handbook has this Huge void in it???? Anyway, I though I'd attend the PLC Course held at Philmont next. And then on to Powderhorn to help develop Venturing.

 

 

[evmori]

Wood Badge went to h*ll in a hand basket when they dumbed it down. It is no longer the elite training course it was.

[ScoutBox]

Was it ever really that elite?

 

I mean I know that it spent more time on Skills which are perfect, but Elite? Most of what was taught before could also have been learned outside of WB. Today it's more of a leadership course dealing with todays problems. Youth Management etc..

 

I went too some elite courses in my Military career. And none of them where like WB. I learned a lot at WB. I liked it. But like you do think that it should be more outdoor related. Problem aren't so much of the BS Leaders, but Cub Leaders that are missing the outdoor side. This should be corrected by a Stronger outdoor leadership training course then the one I went too.

 

I'd like to attend a Troop Management course, and Training course designed to teach scouts leadership. Everyone I've seen so far who haven't been to BS Training courses tend to do what they want. And are mistaken. People refusing to attend WB because they "Think" it is crap, don't know. I mean, after all of those years int he military and in business training young people in sales/ Sales management, WB was excellent.

 

I don't mean to sound aggressive here, just a bit fueled at all of this negative talk about WB. Build a better local program, training ASMs and adults in proper leadership, and outdoor skills at your level, or District level have activity weekends and work shops to improve the quality of adults in scouting. One thing I saw at WB that was really great was the chance to see other leaders, talk, and learn then se what I can do at my level "Troop" to have a better program. My problem is I'm only an ASM, the SM isn't about change, at least major change. So I'm fighting a up hill battle, One that he helped me to form. He was involved in my Ticket selection to help the Troop, now he's sitting on his thumbs. How can I have a better program with that?

 

Go to WB, Then form an opinion based of facts, not hear say. Also for those who had to do it the old way and then the new way, Wish I'd have gotten the chance to do that. You were lucky in many ways. You were able to learn a bit more about Scouting, form new friendships, and networking. And get another view of what Scouting is. Many close themselves up in a glass box and refuse to see what else there might be. Is this good for the Boys?

 

I will continue my Adult Scouting education, and hope I can make a difference in my Troop, and at Unit Commisioner Level.

 

Rant over..

 

Mike B.

[Eagle92]

Mike,

I admit I did not go through either WB course. I did do BA22, which I am told was very similar to GBB's version of WB, and I staffed JLT, which I was told was identical to the old WB course, minus the ticket and beads. One of my JLT youth staffers who went through WB 2 months after the JLT course told me he did not learn anything new and "don't waste your time right now, wait until you need a refresher."

 

Prior to WB21C there were separate WB courses; WB for scout leaders, WB for CS Trainers, and the short lived WB for Explorer leaders. each course focused exclusively on that program area. It was considered elite training as you needed to complete all the basics and have two years tenure as an adult, waivable if you were in the 18 to 19 yo bracket if you made the transition from youth to adult (hence why my staffer at 18 did WB). Yes it focused on outdoor and advance leadership skills. And I've been told that some of the campfire talks afte the normal program did discuss lots of topics of amngst the patrol members. But that is hearsay.

 

That's why alot of folks are upset: they have merged training that really need to focus on specific programs.

[ScoutBox]

This I can understand.. I see that although it doesn't NEED to be several different courses of WB. I do see the need for the different programs to develop something better serving each program. I can understand the problem though. I like WB. I think I learned a lot. But like I said above, it missed a lot of what I would consider the most important, sure it covers a lot, but not most. One of my patrol members in my WB course also voiced this opinion.. The Director told him, he agreed. I too agreed with him. And again after seeing many of the Cub Leaders, they were learning most for the first time..

[ScoutBox]

Has anyone ever contacted anyone up high in National or Council about forming courses better to train Scouters..? I've though about doing something, and my DE was for it.

 

 

[emb021]

"Has anyone ever contacted anyone up high in National or Council about forming courses better to train Scouters..? I've though about doing something, and my DE was for it."

 

Godd luck with that.

 

National is on this 'program neutrality' mindset when it comes to training. WB/PTC are looked at as the program-neutral leadership training for ALL scouters. NYLT/NAYLE are looked at as the program-neutral leadership training for ALL older youth (ie boy scouts & venturers).

 

They are in the process of re-writing NYLT & NAYLE to strip out all the boy scout specific stuff.

 

They expect any program specific stuff to be in the lower courses (Scoutmasters-specific, Venturin-specific for the adults, Troop Leader Training/Crew Leader Training for the youth).

 

Personally, I think its a mistake as I feel that the youth would better benefit from taking an advanced leadership course where they are in an idealized unit (troop or crew as it may be), rather then in a generic grouping.