Attn. LDS Leaders

[gcnphkr]

During FOS we get updates on where each unit is regarding their FOS goals. Either all or nearly all the LDS units make their goal. Very few non-LDS even come close. My understanding is that the wards cover the FOS for their units.

 

On the other side, few if any LDS units do Popcorn Sales. I'm told that they are not allowed to do fundraisers. Generally, the non-LDS Cub packs more than make up for their FOS in popcorn sales. Last year the district did over $90K in popcorn sales so around $30K to council, I don't know the actual cut. So that leaves the non-LDS Troops and Crews that don't pull their weight.

[jhankins]

According to LDS church policy, the stake president and bishop are allowed to authorize any fundraisers that follow BSA policy in order to make scouting more affordable for the boys in the units.

 

"Many Units believe that the Church has directed that Church members do not participate in Popcorn sales. The Church has given no such direction. If your Stake President determines that Popcorn sales could be an effective way to fund a unit with non-member boys, that decision may be made at local levels. While the Church has given general direction, the brethren expect that local leaders will be able to interpret the budget guidelines in ways that work for their unique situations." Straight from the top.

 

LDS goals for fundraising are usually separate from the community units and the leadership and local business campaigns. For instance, in my district the "Family" goal for community units was $13,000 and the "Abundance" goal for LDS was $45k

[bacchus]

Interesting turn of events. Our school's cubs want me to be the Asst. Cubmaster. I guess it's time to go get some training...

[ghermanno]

Wow!! This conversation changed from Scouting Program to "Fundraising" fast. Exit FOS...

 

How do I get/entice the LDS leaders to attend training, roundtable, camporees...? I have shceduled Camporees so awards are handed out Saturday night at campfire and still get almost zero LDS support (I do get my DE and a couple other District Scouters that are LDS but no Troops).

 

I know the LDS cares for the youth and the program, I also know if the need were there and they had it they would help fund it.

 

I am just wondering how to get them more involved. Because I am not LDS, it has been reccomended to me NOT to visit LDS units to talk to them about the program/training but to let a LDS Distrrict person do it. They are also busy and never seem to find the time...

 

Sorry, didn't mean to vent so much but I feel the youth AND the adults are losing out by not participating.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[Beavah]

Yah, wrong approach, ghermanno. If you're coming at this from a district angle, da question is not "what can we do to get you to participate in our district events?". It should be " what can our district do to help you with your unit program?"

 

Go ask 'em that, or get to know 'em so that you can figure that out.

[ghermanno]

It should be " what can our district do to help you with your unit program?"

 

Did that... Still waiting for responses.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[trainerlady]

ghermanno, an idea were kicking around in my district is mass emailing all the registered Scout families with information about upcoming events. It has worked well for our day camp program at the Cub level. It takes time to build the list, and people can elect to be dropped at any time.

 

What we found, especially at the Cub level, is that if the unit leader isn't interested in an event he/she doesn't pass the information on to the rest of the den/pack/troop/etc. Some families will attend an event solo if they know about it. Others won't go even if you give them free admittance, a ride there and back and held their hands the whole time if no one from their unit isn't there.

 

As I'm learning from some of my LDS customers in my store, leaders aren't volunteers they are "called" to be leaders. A popular term in my area is they are voluntold to be leaders. Some look at it as a great opportunity to give to the kids of the church and embrace the project with gusto and learn and do all they can. Some see it as a major burden, they do it grudgingly and with little effort. I feel sorry for those kids.

 

Non-LDS kids in an LDS based mixed unit may love to come to a camporee or event but haven't been told about it by a less than willing leader. Get them the information, hook them and you get their LDS unit mates to come to the next event.

 

Good luck. I have to say getting people to events isn't just an LDS problem. It is a problem in general, at least in my area.

[Gary_Miller]

trainerlady, "As I'm learning from some of my LDS customers in my store, leaders aren't volunteers they are "called" to be leaders. A popular term in my area is they are voluntold to be leaders. Some look at it as a great opportunity to give to the kids of the church and embrace the project with gusto and learn and do all they can. Some see it as a major burden, they do it grudgingly and with little effort. I feel sorry for those kids."

 

The "calling" of leaders in the LDS Church is not different than any other organization. The COR of the organization visits with a person and asks them if they would take a position. The individual in both incidents have the right to say "Yes" or "No". No one is told they have to do the job, and every one is a volunteer.

 

The problem lays when one say "YES" but chooses not do the job. To which the organization (BSA) and youth suffer.

 

It has nothing to do with the way the leaders are selected. But has everything to do with how well and how serious the leaders fulfill their responsibility.

[Eagle92]

Gary,

From what I read on some LDS and Scouting blogs, there are many folks who feel obligated to say yeas when called to be a scout leader. They are not enthusiastic, are not interested, and are marking time until someone else gets called.

[gcnphkr]

At best, it is difficult to say "No" in a hierarchical, authoritarian religious system.

[Gary_Miller]

Eagle92, "From what I read on some LDS and Scouting blogs, there are many folks who feel obligated to say yeas when called to be a scout leader. They are not enthusiastic, are not interested, and are marking time until someone else gets called."

 

Many members of the LDS church take a "calling" because the don't feel it would be right to turn it down when they feel they all called by inspiration given from God through the Bishop.

 

However, when one accepts a calling, they are saying they will fulfill that calling to the best of their ability. In essence they become a volunteer. One also have the right and responsibility to turn down a calling or asked to be released if they don't feel they can fulfill it properly.

 

Here is were the problem lays. Men, once they accept a call, through their free agency have a choice do their calling or choose not to. In the scouting program those who choose not to usually do so because they just don't know what to do, and don't take the time necessary to become trained.

 

There are also those who do an outstanding job at scouting and would stay there for ever who get released way to soon. This usually happens because this type of person would do just a good a job no matter where they are working and the Bishop feels he needs them somewhere else. Some Bishops also feel it best to move people around to diffrent postions in the ward, because it gives them more experiance in the church and makes them a more rounded person.

 

The bright side is in recent years the leadership in Salt Lake has been working on training Bishop about the importance of keeping Young Men Leaders (Scout Leaders) in their calling for longer periods of time. In fact they have said that tenure is spelled "T E N Y E A R S".

 

The bottom line is everyone has their agency to do or not to do, and its my belief that we will be held accountable to God for the choices we make.

[jhankins]

We've noticed an influx of Bishops getting Wood Badge trained too. The operations of committees and programs suddenly takes action in the right direction when we see Bishops coming home with smiles on their faces!

 

I'm a non-member of the LDS church, but was just called to be Troop Committee Chair. Today at the church meeting, it was put to a sustained vote that I be accepted into that decision, and the Bishop asked if he could place a blessing on me for the benefit of the boys I serve.

 

I could have said no at any time, and so can other scout leaders. All the calling represents is the Bishop, after prayerful consideration, asking you to take on the Lord's work. If you feel, after prayerful consideration, that your load at home and at your job doesn't accommodate Scouting, you can say no.

 

All that knowledge comes with adequate education, though.

[Eagle92]

Gary,

I hope the tenure = ten years goal works out, esp. in my neck of the woods. I know several of us on the district committee would like to see the LDS units more. But as mentioned elsewhere, their leadership changes yearly, if not sooner.

[bacchus]

Eagle92, here are the official stats from 2006:

 

Tenure of Service (average):

Cubmasters -- 21 months

Den Leaders 17 months

Scoutmaster 26 months

Assistant Scoutmaster 21 months

Varsity Coach 21 months

Assistant Varsity Coach 18 months

Venturing Adviser 21 months

Assistant Venturing Adviser 18 months

Committee Chairman or Chartered Representative -- 25 months

Other Positions -- 22 months

Average of all leaders 22 months

[Eagle92]

Bac,

Could you post the link please? Not doubting you all, but I am disturbed by those stats, and would like to know about the model they used.

 

I knew turnover on the CS side is high, let's face it kids crossover and usually parents crossover too, but 26 mos for an SM and 21 for an ASM is not what I'm use to. I'm use to SMs and ASMs staying 5-20+ years. And even then, some move to the troop committee, become commissioners, etc, so their expereince and wisdom is still available to advise their repalcements. Unless of course they move to another area of the country due to a job. And usually they join a unit in that area.

 

Again I'm curious about the model, as I would love how I would count in it. I moved 5 times in a 7 year period serving in a total of 11 different positions, several PORs were concurrent, in that period. Longest stay in one location was 2.5 years, shortest was 4 months.