Attn. LDS Leaders

[bacchus]

We have had a number of threads about weaknesses in our programs. Some are stronger than others. Let me ask you guys:

 

What are you doing to make your program high quality?

 

What are you doing to build bridges with the rest of the BSA?

[bacchus]

I'll start.

 

I'm going to every bit of BSA training I can get into. I have even *gasp* attended some things that require Sunday attendance. I feel it's important to know what the whole program is, to get the most out of it to strengthen our youth. I'm also doing everything I can to get the LDS training I need so I can figure out how to support the entire program.

 

I'm working hard to support District and Council events, and making sure my youth are aware of those events. Although it is funny that it seems all the District Camporees fall on General Conference... When we can't participate I let the leaders know why so they don't think we are being some elitist group.

[jhankins]

I am in an interesting situation. I'm a non-member of the church, but I've been asked by a local Bishop to serve as committee chair for his pack and troop. They want to get seasoned scouters and new ideas into the unit to help build a better program. We're talking with LDS-BSA relations in Salt Lake when we need to, and we're learning more all the time that this is a great way to provide program!

 

The Scoutmaster is a school teacher, and just by displaying his Eagle Scout certificate he's recruited 4 new boys. Those 4 boys took their requirements to heart and recruited another eight boys. Those eight have recruited another 5 so far! So we have an LDS unit with 20 non-members and 5 members.

 

Recruiting boys was just the beginning, we're now staffed with 3 non-member ASMs and 3 members. They're all going to training together. The committee is full of parents from the community. The LDS parents are seeing change happen and a bright, happy program growing and are participating now because they feel left out of the fun.

 

We're also teaming up with other troops in the district for outings. Combining patrols of boys for hikes, having the 11 year old scouts camping together with their younger scouts, and the leaders from this ward are active parts of the training, activities and advancement committee at the district level.

 

And, by selling popcorn as the first LDS unit in the district, it's making a huge impression on the other units that we're "more alike" than they had previously thought.

[gcnphkr]

I'm not LDS, but half the scouts in the district are. Here are a few things that I've observed. One of the weaknesses that I see in the LDS program is that they have leaders that may be willing, but don't really want to be in scouts. Everyone they know feels the same way. Scouting is at best a duty and sometimes a burden for them, even for the scouts. The best way to overcome this is to be around people that love scouting. More than half of my Wood Badge Patrol was LDS and for several this was the first time they had been around scouters that actually loved scouting. They said it made a big difference in their own attitude.

 

It is good if Scoutmaster Specific and IOLS includes non-LDS trainers.

 

Go to Wood Badge, preferably one that will have a higher non-LDS participation. For example, there are weekend courses that run Thursday - Saturday or Friday - Sunday. Go with the Friday - Sunday date. Or a week long course.

 

Get on the district committee. At the same time don't dominate the committee or commissioner service.

 

Visit a traditional unit. Take your unit camping with a traditional unit.

 

Contact the OA Chapter Chief and have OA elections. Encourage the scouts to join the OA and be active, not just ordeals, but chapter meetings and activities as well. Form a ceremony team.

 

Wear the uniform properly to all activities. Never, ever, wear jeans with a scout shirt--even in "Class B".

 

If your district has Eagle Boards of Review then show up to introduce the Eagle candidate. When I sit on a board I shouldn't be able to tell if the scout is LDS just by looking at the candidate and the people that are not with him. It wouldn't hurt to get feedback from the board afterward.

 

Okay, those don't just apply to LDS units. LDS units have no monopoly on standoffish cliques, low morale, or lax attitudes about the methods of scouting.

 

Finally, and this should be obvious, don't proselytize.

[bacchus]

Hankins, That is pretty cool.

 

Jet, I like what you say about finding scouters with positive attitudes. Allow them to train, although I don't think being LDS necessarily negates somebody from having a positive attitude. You make it sound like in your area there are no LDS guys who love scouts, so maybe it's true there...

 

Thanks for the other advice, and I agree - don't proselyte the scouts! That's like a bait and switch. I'm sure it isn't very successful anyway.

[Basementdweller]

I second the attend standard BSA training.

 

Shake hands when offered. I am a person too.

 

When asking for special accommodations think about more than just the LDS crew. Our district moved round table to better accommodate the LDS members and now it interferes with other scouters church functions.

 

How about participating in Friends of Scouting? Our local LDS units don't.

 

 

[moosetracker]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask the question. But basically, my dealings with LDS is that if I did work with LDS people I didn't know it.. If they were never at any camporees, or sitting in my District meetings or sitting next to me in Trainings because they are stand-offish I didn't know that either.. I guess to me when at a Scouting event a scout is a scout..

 

But this coming year, working at district level I want to go out and visit units.. Not just LDS, just all different units.. If I email or call an LDS unit to ask to visit is there a better way to do so that would put them at ease? Or will they be like me, if I don't introduce myself as LDS or non-LDS will they just take me as Scout?

[gcnphkr]

I know a number of great LDS leaders that love scouting. Half the district is LDS and well over half the council.

 

Part of the issue is a matter of perception and sampling error. When you see a great or even typical scouter or unit you don't know if they are LDS or not and likely don't think about it. Okay, wearing orange loops or doing a haka are good clues they are probably LDS. But poor units and their leaders get noticed. 3/4 of the units in the district are LDS so 3/4 of the screw-ups will be LDS. The resulting perception is that LDS units are poor units even when that is not really the case. Most are just like any other unit. In an area with few LDS units you will tend to get the opposite.

[bacchus]

Basement, FOS is a great program, but many LDS don't even know about it. You can't blame the council for trying, but sometimes word just doesn't trickle down to the typical parent or other friend. I have heard rumors of units where the LDS actually donate more per capita than non-LDS, but that is apparently only true when the Stake President (responsibility over a number of congregations) really pushes it. People listen to him.

 

Moose, If you want to visit an LDS unit, just call the SM and let him know you would like to visit. If there are a lot of LDS in your area, he might assume you are LDS, but then the beard might give it away once you arrive But chances are he will welcome you whether you are LDS or not. We aren't keeping any secrets from anybody; we just do some things a little different. Actually that isn't as true as we like to believe. I have been to non-LDS activities and the LDS guys are a little bit surprised when it started with a prayer...

 

Jet, good points. Haka? I guess they don't do that here. Remember that some people think they are expected to be different so it is a self-fulfilling prophecy and they come across as very weird.

[moosetracker]

Do ALL LDS wear orange tabs?? I DO look at shoulder tabs, and orange tabs would get my notice (an probably I would be nosey and ask about the orange tabs, I did the first time I saw yellow tabs.) I have never seen a single orange tab in my life. I know we have LDS scouting units though.

[bacchus]

Varsity wear the orange tabs. I don't have the figures, but it seems most Varsity units are LDS - ages 14-15 typically.

 

And I was joking about the beard, if in fact there is one.

[gcnphkr]

Hakas are traditional war dances of the Maori. Other Pacific Islanders have picked it up. There are a few wards with a large number of Pacific Islanders here. The Tongans are huge and when they do their haka it is really impressive. One ward had seven leaders getting their WB beads (including the bishop). It has a large number of members from American Samoa. That was an amazing party, grass skirts and all.

[moosetracker]

OK that explains it maybe. I know there is no Varsity on the Roster of our District. I am unsure about the whole council. So maybe there is a reason I have never seen orange.

 

I wasn't implying you guys did secretive things.. Just, didn't know if standoffish meant, sort of a comfort zone of being with your own, and you were leery of a stranger in the midst. I just don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.

 

I did attend an LDS funneral once, it seemed pretty normal to me. Also I figured I would have noticed LDS if they were the really wierd ones, so I figured you either blend in well, or don't attend.

[Basementdweller]

Our council finances are a closely guarded secret.

 

I will have to take you word when you say LDS donate more money. I don't doubt it, because of the strong individual financial ties to the church.

 

I know that our District LDS organization do not participate in FOS.

[bacchus]

Basement, what I meant to say is that in some councils the LDS donate more FOS per capita than non-LDS, although my suspicion is that is a rare council, and definitely not true in mine. I didn't think those figures were a secret though. Are you sure? Other than individual donors' names, I think our information is somewhat available in my council. I'll check on it.