venting: Woodbadge tickets meets Father expectations

[moosetracker]

Eagle92 - sorry I did not answer this. Yes troop meetings are only when school is in session, not summer, vacation, even if school has a 1 day off on our meeting day, or School cancels over weather..

We do summer camp and an event for the other month. I believe they are going White water Rafting. But troop meets at summer camp, and will meet in parking lot the day of the other event.

 

Son has been talking to Course director (Scoutmaster).. The guy just says he will contact advisor. He feels the advisor will eventually talk to him, so has not reassigned him. For some reason he is reluctant to do so, but knows the issue. At least he got the green light to start from the Course director.. It would have been better that the advisor started out absent, and had not emailed with implicent orders for him not to start until they discussed the tickets..

 

Son can and is finishing ticket regardless of what his father did. It is not like the shed blew up, or was set on fire. It has just become twice the job. It was just underhanded of him is all.

 

Another thing that gets me was when his father took woodbadge one of his tickets was to put the selves in the "then" new trailer, and take the equipment out of the shed to put in trailer.. He never inventoried the equipment, nor cleaned and straightened, tossed inventoried what remained in the shed.. WHY??? Cause it was not on his ticket!!!

[Basementdweller]

I just made the comment is was unusual.

 

I am not making accusation, blaming or pointing fingers, Relax people.

 

How many people personally know a scouter who is less than 20 who has participated in woodbadge???

 

zero here

 

I was hoping there was an interesting story behind it and indeed there was.

[Lisabob]

I do. There was an 18 (19?) year old in my WB patrol. He did a fine job, too, and was the first of us to finish his ticket.

[Scoutfish]

Yeah, Basements comment wasn't a bad one. No harm/ no foul.

 

From what I have read on this site and within these forums...most WoodBadgers seem to be older.

Matter of fact, the interpreteation I got, and the one I went along with , was that it was just clarifying that he was at least 18 and not younger.

 

Granted, people can have sons who are almost 50 years old and probably much, much older, but come on.....the very first impresssion you get on this site when hearing somebody say "my son" is that he's an active scout who is between 7 and 16 years old.

 

Know what I mean? Yeah, scouts can be 6,and they can be 18, but most commonly they are in between.

 

Anyways, I don't think anybody was calling that being 18 was an issue...just clarifying he was "AT LEAST" 18.

 

[kmorgan221]

No harm no foul. I was struck by the excessive question marks and the "unnecessary" comment. It suggested to me that it had no value or was wasted on someone that young. In my experience on internet forums it's best to be clear on what you're asking, to avoid being misinterpreted. Even that doesn't always work, however.

 

But we did get an interesting story as to why.

[Eagle92]

Base,

If my comment seemed rude, I apologize as that was not the intent. that's why I included the "heck I wish I would have taken it when I had a chance while in college" quote to show that it was not meant to be rude or obnoxious. Rather it was meant as an FYI, esp now that Sea Scouts and Venturers can go through it. Not many folks in my neck of the woods know that.

 

As for 21 and under folks going through WB, I know of 5. One was 18, three 19, and one 20 or 21.

[bacchus]

Moose, I have to give your son props for taking the high road and realizing this can be resolved by him just taking care of business even though his father stepped in and put up another hurdle. Imagine how nasty this could have ended up if he hadn't been the mature one.

[Basementdweller]

Most of the 18 year old I know should have a bit of seasoning before wood badge, if ya know what I mean. Leading to my statement unnecessary. They need to experience life a bit before the training. Just my opinion that's all.

 

Moose's son may be the exception to the rule, I have no clue. A shame he traded peers for adult friends, but what the heck it worked for him.

 

[moosetracker]

Yeah, theres time's I'm proud of my son.. Other times I could wring his neck..

 

He is mature in some ways, but is delayed in others. We thought we lucked out with no rebellious years, he hit them at 18.

 

We did want him to have friends, it was one of the reasons I wanted him in scouts. Troop would go camping & Dad & Leaders were always forcing him to leave the adults and return to his peers. He was always so serious, and just never could take a joke, or being silly.. At 5 years old, I said he was an 80 year old man in a 5 year old body. His dad & I would joke & laugh & tease not meanly, just as you do with family.. He just never understood it.

 

Just as he became JASM and was Eagle scout, they wanted to start a Venture crew. I told them they better not force the under 21 YO's in it.. The lady starting it didn't see my problem. I said, "My son has wanted to be with the adults since forever, he is now with them and thrilled, Don't force him back with his peers.".. The SM just laughed and agreed, "Oh yeah, he has wanted to be with us for as long as I've known him. He will definatly not want to be in a crew.." And he definately did not.

 

I guess a result of being an only child. His grandparents loved having him met their friends, there friends were amazed at how comfortably he talked and related with them (Seniors) whether he was 5 /10 or whatever. They would discuss and ask about him long after they met him.

 

So he is sociable, just never with his own peers.. He is doing better working with young kids too. People think he is gifted as a teacher. Now that his peers are maturing, he is now doing fine with them too. And he is now understanding joking and teasing, started about the time he also went to his rebellious stage.

[Scoutfish]

Moose,

 

I wouldn't sweat it! When I was younger,I too was always more comfortable with adults. I could talk to an adult easier than somebody my age.People said I was an old soul ina young body.

 

WEll, some 30 years later, I will jump up and get into the middle of a group of kids and act just as every bit their age as they do.

 

While the other parents and adults have to be coaxed and encouraged to ( at least for a few minutes) to drop their mature and nobile attitudes long enough to sing Bazooka Bublegum...I will jump in laughing and clapping and singing at the top of my lungs.

 

 

I guess I find it easier to be a kid and meet a kid at the kid's levelthan most adults.

 

Maybe that's why they asked me to be the cubmaster this year.

 

Maybe that's why we all do it: We aren't to old to be too young!

 

So, anyways, your son might be "too old" right now, but I'll bet that later on, all his friends will be too old and too serious to be a CM, SM , or any other leadership type when the time comes!

 

WEll, his freinds might be able to take the position, but your son will be the one to truely connect.

[CHLees3rd]

Moose,

 

I wonder what the comments would have been like if the three Scouters in your original post were not related and were just three independent adults? Wonder if the term "helicopter parent" would have come up or even opinions about what the ticket should have been. Moving on...

 

From what I can tell, you did not get involved until you discovered that your husband was sabotaging your sons Wood Badge ticket. You said something to both your husband and your son, but neither has listened to you. Your husband has his own agenda and has worked the situation in such a way that he is getting his way. Your son is letting your husband bully him into doing more work than what his ticket states. Do I have it correctly? If so, then I think you are correct to back your son not only because he is your son, but also, more importantly, because your sons ticket is solely his business and not his fathers or anyone else for that matter. Furthermore, your husband is being or was a bully to your son and he should be ashamed of himself as Scouting does not allow such behavior.

 

I feel it is OK for him to have an agenda as virtually everyone has one, but the way he went about getting things done is just unacceptable. A better tactic for him would have been to approach your son as another equal Scouter and asked something to the affect of, Son, I know your ticket is to clean and inventory the shed. Would you mind helping us inventorying the trailers contents when you are done so that we can get an accurate list of what the troop owns? Considering that your husband is also Wood Badge trained, if I remember correctly from some of your other posts, he should have known better. Plus, this way would have killed two birds with one stone. Doing it this way would allow him to acknowledge your sons ticket as written and, since your son seems to be the type that does what your husband wants, get the trailer inventoried too. One always gets more bees with honey than one gets with vinegar.

 

I find it so ironic that your husband acted like such a hard ass with your son about one ticket item, as if his opinion really mattered, yet he let the Troop Quartermaster slide for six months only to support the Scout by saying he did an excellent job. Your husband is all messed up and his credibility is going down the drain. If I met him face to face, Id ask him if he would sign off on the Quartermasters Eagle project if the Scout didnt do it? Will he allow other Scouts to slide by? He set a precedent if you ask me.

 

Also, would your husband have bullied another ASM if he thought the ASMs ticket was half assed? Or would he have tried to cajole the ASM into also including the trailer? Is your husband a bully with everyone, or is your son the only target? I'm just curious if this is his regular modus operandi.

 

Stick to your guns and good luck,

Chazz Lees

 

[jhankins]

Part of writing a Wood Badge ticket is being flexible in order to make your vision happen through the mission you set for yourself (the ticket).

 

Shed, trailer -- semantics. If the inventory is going to happen, what skills is the guy using from the course that directly effect his unit?

 

The ticket has to meet no ones goals and vision but the writer's.

[CHLees3rd]

jhankins,

 

I agree with you about everything except the semantics part. I took Wood Badge in 1992 and again in 2008. During both courses, my ticket counselors stressed to me to be very detailed, specific, and clear about what I planned to do for each ticket item. I'm not sure why the son picked just the shed to clean and inventory, but he must have had his reason to write the ticket the way did. Perhaps he was annoyed that the Quartermaster was not doing the Quartermaster's job and decided not to do it for him. Perhaps he focused only on the shed because it had been a problem during many different youth administrations and he saw a project that could help both the troop and the pack. Perhaps he was jealous that his father appears to favor the quartermaster. Only the son knows. Whatever his reason, the ticket was approved, although, I think by the course director instead of the ticket counselor. In any case, the ticket was approved by someone of authority on the Wood Badge staff as it was written. It should not be questions after that.

 

YiS,

Chazz Lees

[jhankins]

If the location of all the equipment lends the ticket item to need an addition of a location for execution, then it's within the participant's pervue to take that into account and accomplish their goals. It's just like an Eagle Scout Leadership Project in that respect, changes to the execution of the goal are going to change, but it doesn't mean that you require a conference or clearance from a staffer to make that happen. Sure, some things do require that conversation, but an argument over the location of equipment when the spirit of the item is the equipment itself?

 

I'd be more concerned with how the ticket item applies wood badge skills, but in this case, by the whole fiasco behind it, the guy's relying on most of the pentagon to get through the whole scenario.

[moosetracker]

Son not jealous of Fathers favoritism of scout.. Father is like that with all other scouts & his son at all times though scouting.. Son must do better and be better and work 10 times harder then any other scout, and still son could do better. Normally he is very fair and patient with other scouts, teaches them skills but expects them to carry out their responsibilities. This is the first time I saw him cheat another scout of his POR just to force his son to do more than required, or win a battle with his son.

 

Father knows he is harder on son. Son will say Father is a great scoutleader with all but him. Father will agree. This is definately inability to be neutral with your own child. With most parents either you are too easy or too hard.. We all know in this family it leans to the too hard.

I think I was the wishy washy parent, trying to be neutral, I would be too easy at one time, and too hard at another, and rarely came up neutral.

 

When ticket was written, the normal troop equipment was all in the trailer and not the shed. The QM's job is to inventory the troop equipment while passing it on to the next QM, then if they do their job correctly inventory at the end of their term should be easy, if they don't do their job, then inventory is difficult. That is the QM's job.

 

The shed is really more utilized by the pack since the troop got the trailer. Shed is now just the dumping grounds, for the troop. The first time son cleaned the shed (before troop equipment was dumped in), the troop had not much left, lots trashed, old cookstoves & lanterns with white gas & such came home to be sold on ebay for funds for the troop. Old camping boxes came home to be burned. Things left were troop T-shirts, a few backpacks, cookkits and other gear donated for the purpose of being donated to scouts with financial needs (these are things the troop forgot were there), a box of rope, staves and the pinewood derby sleds.. the rest for the troop was just cleaning out the dumping grounds so the pack could get to and locate their stuff.. Then he went through the pack's items and organized that, throwing out only what could not be saved though the mouse infestation.

 

The shed just isn't considered the equipment that the troop ever bothered with including in troop inventory. No one inventoried the troops trash. No where on the ticket was stated he would inventory the troops equipment. That was the QM's duty.

 

Now that the troop equipment got thrown out of the trailer and into the shed, son is forced to inventory it, NOT because it is troop equipment, but because it is in the shed.. He still will not go canvasing the neighborhood for missing equipment. He is not doing inventory of the troops equipment.. That is not his ticket item, never was. His ticket is to organize and itemize that which is in the shed. The ticket is clearly written out as to what he was doing, because he did NOT want to include the trailer and it's items, or the missing troop items, because the QM wasn't doing his job. When he wrote out his ticket, that was his intent.. He thought the equipment was not being tracked right, and the problem should be rectified by the QM that was not doing his job. How else do the scouts learn responsibility?

 

He wrote out the ticket, showed it to me to look over, and stated he wanted to make sure it did not include the items in the trailer, before he ever passed the ticket in. Obviously he never discussed the issue ahead of time with "Dear old Dad" and made sure Dad was not going to muck up his intent. If they had, son would have changed the ticket item for something completely different. I would post the ticket but I don't have access to it anymore.