venting: Woodbadge tickets meets Father expectations

[moosetracker]

My son took woodbadge last October, one of his tickets was to clean out & inventory the scout shed that belongs to both cubscout & boyscout, and because of it things got dumped in it, units forgot what belonged to who, and then things just sat.. Plus we recently had mice infestation.

 

His Father (my husband).. Decided to work with the the scout in the troop who had the position of Troop Quarter master and hadn't done a thing with it, and whose position was coming to a close.. In order to get credit for the job he had to do something, so my husband was going to work with him on the Troop trailer (this alot of the troop equipment in it.) He decided this was good because they would be helping my son with his ticket. My son said his ticket did not include the troop trailer only the shed. My husband said that was a half-assed ticket, and he had to do the trailer..

 

I sided with my son. I felt a woodbadge ticket is like a merit badge requirement. You can't add to the meritbadge requirements, my husband shouldn't be adding to his sons woodbadge ticket. My husband got upset I sided with my son.

 

My son spent a day at the shed. Cleaning it, throwing away a ton of stuff, mice infested, or old & broken, and the shed looked good, but he had not inventoried it yet.

 

My husband and the quartermaster spent about 4 hours on the trailer. He came home and said they decided to take everything out of the trailer and put it in the shed. Then the troop can take from the shed what was needed.

 

My son went back to inventory and found a mess.. the tents from the trailer were not taken from the trailer & dumped in the shed with no checking for missing, the first aid kits from the trailer just dumped without checking... Basically he had to start over and dump all the unusable stuff that my husband & the Quartermaster dumped onto him..

 

He did so without complaint, except last night he said to me all he had left to do was inventory the tents. Knowing those were from the trailer I said, "your father & so-and-so did that".. He told me no they just moved them. I disputed that wasn't his job.. His only answer was he had not gotten to the inventory, and to finish his job, he had no choice but to do the trailer.

 

This morning my husband was gloating that our son had to spend a day throwing away a ton of stuff from the shed. Since I knew my son had already thrown away and organized the shed to be only good stuff. The new "junk" he had to toss out had to have come from the trailer..

 

I am pissed. But, I know my son wants to handle it himself.. Besides my son, what responsibility did my husband teach the quartermaster who wasn't doing his job? "Let's just off load this job on someone else"..

 

So am I right to be angry? Or, am I being the over-protective mother who is not letting her son grow up?

[desertrat77]

Moosetracker, it may be a bit of both.

 

Though the ticket said "shed" and not "trailer", in truth, a complete inventory of gear can't be done without doing both.

 

Suffice to say this scenario has the same vibe as many that play out in my household.

 

Dads tend to see things through the prism of "the young man needs to learn how to handle tough jobs, and not complain." Moms tend to side with their little boy, though the boy might be almost six feet tall.

 

At some point, the teenager will become an adult and enter the workforce. He will face similiar tasks, and arbitrary rules, in his profession. Mom won't be there to defend him. Moms and dads both want their boys to grow up and be men of character. Unfortunately, character is often built during periods of difficulty. Unconditional love is wonderful, but tough times really seal the deal.

[skeptic]

Sorry, but I am a bit confused here. If the son is the Woodbadge candidate, working on a portion of his ticket, then he is an adult. So, why is "mom" involved? When do we stop the helicopter stuff? Maybe I am being naive, but at some point parents need to let things be and let their children deal with adversity, even when it is indirectly part of the family. Of course, there does appear, based on the scenario cast, that the father perhaps has also been a bit overbearing; but dealing with that should be part of the ticket process, as well as simply growing up and being an adult.

 

JMO of course.

[Scoutfish]

Yeah... I was wondering about that too: If he's taking WoodBadge, then he must be an adult.

 

So back to the question: NOPE! Dad has no more input than I do about what is part of or not part of the ticket item. But also, that means neither do you or anybody other than the people who approve ticket items.

 

I think that if you want to do inventoty, it should include the shed, the trailer, and anything eklse that may be at this scout's house, that scout leader's house or on loaner if that be the case.

 

 

Overall, it's just another day in thje life of being a human. Sometimes things go easy and fast. Sometimes we have stuff dumped on us. Sometimes we think we are done and then have to do somebody elses work too. Life is not always fair, but still goes on.

 

Your husband dumping stuff in the shed was not cool, but that is something that your son must deal with and come to terms with. It's not s scouting thing either. It's a father/ son thing! He needs to be the one to tell dad that it's time for dad to step back and let Jr do his own thing.

[ScoutNut]

Wood Badge is about leadership, not about doing everything all by yourself. Your son should have contacted his WB Guide if he had any questions on his ticket. He should also have used his leadership skills to get help from both the Pack and the Troop (how about that Quartermaster?) for the cleaning project. At the very least, after finding the mess left by the Quartermaster, I would have gotten him down there to help clean up the mess he had left.

 

BTW, your husband had no business interfering with your son's WB ticket. Also, does he realize, or care, what he has just taught that Quartermaster? He taught him that the Scout Oath and Law mean next to nothing, and that dumping your work off on someone else, and leaving things in a much bigger mess for someone else to clean up after you, is the right thing to do.

 

Shame on him.

 

 

[moosetracker]

"Mom" got involved, because "Dad" got involved.. "Why is Dad involved?" Why is it ok for "Dad" to increase the requirements, but not ok for Mom to say that it is not "Dad's" ticket and he should stay out of it.. Why is Mom the helecopter parent to tell Father to bud out..?

 

He is over 18. Except for the original conversation, that turned into family about what this ticket was about,

 

(Which it was not a ticket to inventory the Equipment, It was a ticket to clean the shed, disinfect that which still could be used from the mouse turds, throw out what could not be saved, and determine & inventory what was boyscout & what was cubscout.)...

 

My husband saw this as All Inventory All equipment, desertrat saw the same thing..

So maybe it is a guy thing to see something and generalize it to include more. While women see something for what it is..

 

Mom is staying out right now.. I have not said a word to my husband about it. Although he knows I am not happy with him.. I am letting son handle it. I would rather beat him over the head, and tell him to get his butt to the shed and do his own work, not pawn it off on his son.

 

I knew he put the stuff in the shed, but I thought not without inventoring the tents, and throwing the trash away.

[Scoutfish]

Let me rephrase what I said:

 

There are several different, and unrelated things happening at once:

Dad has no more buisness that you had ..or...You have as much buisness as dad has to interfear which is none!

 

The son needs to tell dad that when it comes to stuff like WB ticket items, your son's training or like ..that he needs to be a dad or a scouter, but not both. Dad cannot add, change, or lesson anything "just because it's his son" ( all parents are guilty of this sometimes without realizing it). Your son needs to tell dad he's crossed the parent line. That is not s scouting thing..but a parent/child thing.

 

Inventory: Okay, so maybe it was just about who owned what, but a job done righ is still a job done right. WEther he cleaned it, tossed it or whatever... to do the job right and thoroughly..the trailer as wellas any other locatoon of storage should be included in the inventory. Sure, he might very well list what belongs to who....but is trhe list complete if some of the associated item were in the trailer or maybe the SM's house, att another scouters house or perhaps even a closet somewhere in the CO?

 

At any rate, slap your husband up side the head, and make him eat cold Bologna sandwiches for a few days!

[bacchus]

Why is the quartermaster shirking his responsibilities and shifting them to an adult? I think at his next BOR I would ask some specifics about a POR where he "hadn't done a thing with it" other than at the end of his term to create more work for an adult.

[Lisabob]

My advice: stay out of this. This is not a "mom" and "dad" issue. This is an issue between two adult scouters - you, the third adult, are only inserting yourself because you happen to be related to these other two. And frankly, not only do you disempower your adult son by doing so, but you place yourself in a no-win family situation, to boot.

 

Think about it this way: no matter how "right" or "wrong" the ASM (your husband) is, and no matter whether the youth QM did the right thing or not, the larger issue has to do with the ticket. That's your son's to manage, and not yours to manage.

 

[moosetracker]

I have been fine with most the comments, just the "Mom" is the helecopter & nothing about "Dad's" interference got to me.

 

At the beginning of the whole thing, son did tell Dad that it was just shed, Firmly.. Then Dad dragged me into arguement (thinking I would side with him. Upset I did not..) As far as son saw his ticket when he created it, the inventory of all the troop equipment was the Quartermaster duty.. Had been for years, yet no one ever did the Shed.. So his ticket was not about taking the responsibility away from the Quartermaster. His ticket was about overseeing something that had been neglected for years.

 

When I was dragged into the arguement I chose to side with what my son saw as his ticket item, and what he was responsible for.. I thought we should bud out and what my son saw as his ticket item is what I felt was accurate, because it was his ticket period.. So leave him alone to do what he wanted to do.. I think son would have helped with the trailer had Dad not been forcing it on him as "his duty" but asked him to help, just to help.. But, the arguement got so bad, between them, son wasn't going near the project.

 

Son first chose not to tell me what Dad had done, then it slipped out and I was furious that, that was not his job. Now son says to me.. "I said I would inventory the shed. Now that this is in there I have no choice but to do it. It is now part of my ticket.." I stopped arguing he was right. That does not mean I am not mad at hubby for what he did. As far as I am concerned what son sees as his ticket is what is correct. End of story.

 

Son has a problem with his Woodbadge Guidence guy. Right after Woodbadge the guy emailed him once to say not to start anything until he went over the tickets with him. Then my son tried & tried & tried to contact him and nothing for 6 months.. Getting worried about starting his tickets he talked to the guy who headed the course. He was told by him to start the tickets, that he would get ahold of the guy and have him start contacting Son.. So he is doing the tickets, he has talked to the Course director a few more times about no word from Guidence guy. But still no contact with Guidence guy..

 

Quartermaster & my hubby did their thing like a week before jobs were reassigned. Hubby backed up Quartermaster on his "excellent" job.. No way for son to now get QM rear in gear. It's not his job, and my husband has stated he did his job.

 

Girlfriend has been at shed helping son. He asked me to help one day, I helped but really spent most the day going out for supplies while he worked the shed. He probably should have, could have gotten the rest of the troop to help, but I don't think he knew until Thursday, the mess my husband left him. Now the troop is out for the summer. So he is stuck doing it without their help.

 

Also he & Girlfriend did most of it Thurs. all that is left is inventoring the tents.

[Eagle92]

Both you and dad need to butt out of his ticket. It's your son's not either one of yours.

 

As for the disagreement between father and son, I think both son and dad were wrong. Your son was wrong by saying the trailer didn't count. And dad for allowing QM to just dump stuff in a building that was already organized, teaching the QM that all he needs to do is dump stuff on others. there is a better way to solve these things.

 

On another note, what do you mean the troop is out for summer? Please tell me your troop is not a 9 month troop? Scouting is year round, and some of the best trips are over the summer.

[Basementdweller]

Just curious why an 18 year old is taking wood badge??????

 

Unusual and unnecessary unless he wants to make it a career.

[kmorgan221]

First, we weren't told that he was 18, just that he was over 18. Second, why is that an issue?

 

The leadership skills that Wood Badge teaches apply anywhere, not just Scouting. This is why many corporations will credit an employee with continuing education credits for completing Wood Badge. The skills he will learn can be applied throughout whatever career path he chooses.

 

As for the issue at hand, this is his ticket, meaning he writes it and only he (with his adviser's guidance) can say when it is complete. If he has concerns that he can't fulfill the ticket item as written or intended based on the interference described, he can consult with his adviser to modify his ticket, within reason. That is, it should meet the same goals as the original item.

 

Separately, considering the absentee adviser, I would consult with the course director (Scoutmaster) ASAP on resolving the situation, or asking for another adviser. It sounds like this one is not meeting his needs to successfully complete his ticket.

 

Best of luck, YiS,

Ken - Fox

NE-IV-72

 

[moosetracker]

baccus - I can't really blame the QM, except that he didn't do his job for the full 6 months, but if you have an adult leader telling you this is what needs to get done and you are done, rather then telling you your job entails the inventory of the equipment, then you may or may not know from the past QM's that there is more to it. But, if you have not been a scout intent on doing a good job, you will follow orders and do what you are told is needed.. I am unsure if he even knew my son would now get the task of inventory.. My husband knew, he may or may not have.

 

Eagle92 - I still side with my son.. If was the task of another adult leader maybe. Where doing the trailer would have been doing a young scouts position assignment. Then he was right to not include it in his ticket. Should he have helped? Maybe, but now you are talking about father and teenage son family battle mixing up with scouting. This became a father/son war. Both got stubborn, Father got his way by being nasty even if it cost a young scout learning how to do his job right.

 

Basementdweller - Son has been weird from the get-go.. At 10 he wanted to hang with the adults.. He never understood his peers. He always wanted to be an adult. He got Eagle just a bit before 16 and wanted to be JASM.. Scoutmaster made him wait for 16, but then he never looked back at being with the kids anymore, he has been welcoming them as they matured to adulthood. At 16 he wanted to take all the Adult training. He was upset that they would not let him until 18.. He went on-line and took what he could at 16.. HE wanted to go to Woodbadge.. We figured even if he didn't complete his tickets & get his badge, the leadership skills were good for college.

 

He doesn't want to be an ASM like the other Scouts of 18, he got the position of Outdoor coordinator, went to all the committee meetings and got them to let him have committee voting rights.

 

He went to the Eagle Board monthly as they welcomed visitors.. After month after month they put him officially on the Board, paperwork and all. He is now looking for another District position, that has more responsibilty then going to the EBOR monthly..

 

Actually I mis-spoke he was 18 when he took Woodbadge, he is now 19.

[Eagle92]

Base,

Any 18 yo is an adult leader in a boy scout troop or CS pack and is eligible to attend WB, as long as they complete basic training that is.

 

Now 18 YO Sea Scouts and Venturers can also attend WB.

 

So the age is not an issue. heck I wish I would have taken it when I had a chance while in college.