Who is responsible to keep training records?

[CNYScouter]

Im helping getting my Districts training records up to date.

The District Training Chair got a report for all of our top leaders.

Not a single one has all the required training recorded in ScoutNet.

 

It seems that our old registrar was very hit or miss on inputting training records into ScoutNet. They have been replaced and our new registrar is working to get things updated.

 

We have asked units in our District to supply training records for leaders.

After 6 months less than 25% of our units have turned in records.

 

I have been told by a few units that council has all the records and they arent going to supply them.

 

Even if I (as a volunteer) were allowed access to the records, going through 30 years and a few dozen file cabinets full of records trying to find an individuals record is going to be impossible.

In not letting volunteers help I dont see how one single registrar is going to do this by the end of the year.

 

So asking our units for these records is the only way we can get training records up to date.

 

Looking through unit committee responsibilities; a Pack should have a Pack Trainer which keeps training records.

But in the Troop Committee guidebook there is no mention about the Training Coordinator keeping training records.

There is nothing in the Venturing literature about keeping training records either.

 

At every training session we tell our participants to keep their training cards in a safe place as it may be the only record of them taking the course.

 

So whos responsible for keeping these records?

 

Individuals, Units or council?

 

I just see a lot of PO'ed leaders in January when they are not allowed to register and dropped from their unit roster because their training record is not up to date.

[Eagle92]

CNY,

I myself encountered this same porblem, and was a victim of council not recording my training. Seems that there was no emphasis back in the day on maintaining training records. OOOPS

 

What I did, and what my council modified was to create a training survey with the most common training courses, submit it to the units to fill out, and have them return it to the training chair. My advice would be to A) make sure the indiviual leaders keep a copy of the survey B) the training chair makes a copy prior to turning them in to council (I had to resubmit a few records) C)Make notes on who did not turn in records as well as those "sent them directly to council." ( long story short, PO's leader said I never turned in his info, and my notes stated we had a conversation in which he said he sent them to council directly) and D) HAND DELIVER (caps for emphasis) records to council.

 

I actually went one step further, I did a summary sheet with each indiviual's codes listed without titles to make it easier to imput for the registrar. It was done during a school break and I had some extra time to do it.

[moosetracker]

CNYScouter, Are you looking for ALL training people took, or just that which is required for their current job?

 

Reason I ask is I am starting to clean our records now, in prep for next year.. I know from your other thread, you are a year earlier as the rest of us as your council was choosen to be a "guinea pig".. "Lucky you".

 

about 4 to 5 years back, our whole council went through an "We lost the Adults records, please supply them again." I don't know how well that went, as I was not doing district training.. But, organizing the records now, from checking what is and isn't recorded from our council, I know that they again did not post the records they were suppose to.

 

I don't want to again call out "We lost all your training records" A) we have not.. B) it makes the adult units loose confidence in you. I want to send out email per troop of a list of their registered volunteers and what we have on them.. So they can say what we are missing.

 

But, currently the council says they can't get us a report of ALL the training our volunteers took. Only if Trained in what is Required for current position a Report of only the required for that position course that they took.. If not fully trained for their position they fall on another list stating only what they need to take (but not what they took.)..

 

This leaves me with only sending out a report on "This is who needs what".. Tell us if you took it. I am frustrated I can't get to a list of all that they have taken, so that they can check it over.. Our council registrar say he can only pull each person an individual report.. Which would be impossible to ask him to do 300+ Excel pulls for each individual person.

 

So if you are going over everything, I am just wondering how you are pull out of the software all the training for each person?

 

I am hoping I can go back to at least the last 3 years of course trainings.. The on-line seem to record fine, if the person has put in their ID # when they took it. Supposable since the last time they figured out they are poor at recording, the courses were to go to 3 places. The Council, the district Training chair, and the Council Training chair. I have little hope for the diatrict Training chair.. I am hoping our Council Training chair has them, as she has been in the position for about 6 or 7 years ( the question is did our district follow protocol and get the training info to her.)

 

This triplicate of paper records may just be in our Council.. And as said that was the protocol set up.. whether it was followed or not.. I fear not.

 

Our council training Chair said something about resigning.. I am cringing at that.. I need help, just getting our district up and running as normal, without adding this mandate of 100% training coming soon. I am fearing yet another layer of help that will be vacant.

[Gunny2862]

If they are my Training records, AND I want credit for the work, I am.

 

I keep the cards in my mini-first aid kit - that is usually with me in or out of "Scout Time".

 

I print the My Scouting Cards and add them to the collection and occasionally Scan them, file the Scan, make two copies, one to file with Council and one for my files. I'd love to give one to my Training chair but at The Troop Level we don't have one and at the Council level I've never given the Training Chair anything they haven't lost so when I give the Scan sheet to Council I try to put it directly in the Registrars hands (If you ever need/want to appreciate a paid staffer - appreciate this person; no matter how bad it appears they are doing I'll betcha it's just a matter of HOW overwhelmed they are, not a matter of IF they are.)

[CNYScouter]

Our District Training Chair wanted to get all records for every leader in our District.

With the poor record keeping theres no way we going to do this by the end of the year.

I suggested that we concentrate on the Top unit leaders as their records need to be complete by the end of the year and do the Assistant Leaders next year.

What we are looking at doing is sending a letter showing each top leader what they have on record in ScoutNet and what is missing. For any discrepancies they are asked to contact our Training Chair.

Once we get most of the records in our training chair will sit down with our registrar and update the records

We have an even bigger issue with YPT as no YPT records were ever entered into ScoutNet.

Gunny2862 - At every training I have attended or taught the attendees have been told to keep the training cards as it may be the only record that they took the training.

From the sounds of things very few people did this.

We have units who think that our council is responsible for keeping track of training records and are not going to supply them.

 

[Lisabob]

CNY - perhaps you can find a way to encourage ALL leaders to refresh their YPT. Yes, grumbling will be inevitable. No, it isn't a tough course to do (or re-do), and now that the new BSA YPT mandate has just come out, it seems like a good time for people to do a little refresher. If framed well, you might get most people on board, even if a few grouse about it.

 

One other thing - if (like many) your district or council already did a "we lost your records!" blast within the last couple of years and you are concerned about stirring up that same irritation again - you might be able to tamp down on that a bit by explaining in your letter to adults (or presentations at RT, or whatever) how "this time" will be different. In other words - develop and then promulgate a good plan to ensure these records don't get lost, too.

 

We're a relatively small district (16 troops, 30-odd cub packs, a crew or two). Frankly, I've sometimes thought it would be easier for somebody to make their own excel file on leader training, than to trust the Scoutnet black hole! (yeah I know - probably not a real option - but there are still times when it almost seems preferable)

 

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

So are you pulling your top leaders info queing up the Individual Print report for each person? Maybe you are seeing you are looking at only one person out of every unit.

 

I thought all councils had to have all leaders fully trained in Required courses by Dec 2011 rechartering.. Not just ASM/SM or CM/ACM.. But also all den leaders, committee, COR's and other positions like pack trainer and what not..

 

My husband printed out an individual report on himself. Looking at it, you are right, any YPT we took as a course were never recorded.. But, the ones taken on-line have been recorded.

 

Wow and if you look at those they put down as events (ie.. courses not on-line there is ALOT missing.. We went to Scouting U.. 3 or 4 times.. It only shows one time. Many other things we have taken multiple times, only shows once.. But the on-line shows the multiple times taken. So this may be more the registrar, not recording multiple times for taking a class.

 

Lisabob - It would be preferable, but I am sure somehow the records can be sent to National in ScoutNet.. I have created a program that will pick apart the excel version of the District roster, and automatically reassemble what it pulled apart in multi columns & multi lines.. Now all I need do is get a new Excel roster to refresh my data. I plan to do the same for an excel version of the I am pulling out what I can and creating my own database, I plan to do the same with the poor "Trained" "untrained" Reports.. Not the greatest, but that's what we have to work with..

 

With that I was able to clean the data.. Found many Trained people with no courses, or not all required courses.. Some Untrained people but they had nothing listed for trainings they needed.. One person with two ID #'s.. Lot's of people who are listed as taking New Leaders essentals in one unit but in a second unit they are registered for they are listed as needing "This is Scouting".. a few other checks.. Then I was able to get percentages on different things..

 

With this I plan to send Council the updates of trainings they missed recording.. But, if the next report comes back to me with it not recorded, I will know it, and resend them my next set of what they need to record, with new entries and restating those they have yet to record, until they finally record them.

[BadenP]

The council I am in currently will not release copies of their records training or any other type to a volunteer for any reason as they consider them to be council property. So our district asks volunteers to bring their training records to roundtable and the district training chair keeps a training record book of all district volunteers. It seems to work well for us and sometimes the training chair helps council correct their files which always seems incomplete.

[E V Augustine]

Scouters,

 

Having served as District Training Chair during program years 2001 - 2004 I can assure you that council training record keeping has been abysmal. The SE authorized zero staff hours to record unit leader training credits. I had three Wood Badge beads before I was shown as trained on my unit roster.

 

The current emphasis is Youth Protection Training necessary for renewal/recharter. All to be completed and recorded electronically through the national web portal. Absent electronic documentation the non-compliant individual is removed from the roster.

 

Since the pilot top leader training program has been initiated it is possible to generate a "not trained leader" report through ScoutNet. The report shows training completed for the individual's current leadership position completed electronically. Seat in the chair training records are left to the vagaries of the local council.

 

The next trick coming in 2012 is that top unit leaders have completed position specific training. (For you Ask Andy fans read as SM, CC and COR.) I doubt much attention will be paid to other than required training records.

 

It is surprising what an $18.5 million judgment will do. There are unsubstantiated rumors that G2SS will soon require patrol outings to have two deep leadership and a tour permit. While the rumored action appears to be a near term solution to LDS Scout unit patrols setting the woods on fire it seems a cheap fix and limiting factor to the rest.

 

Best advice is to narrowly construe current published national guidance and document everything else.

 

Eric Augustine

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Moosetracker stated - "I thought all councils had to have all leaders fully trained in Required courses by Dec 2011 rechartering.. Not just ASM/SM or CM/ACM.. But also all den leaders, committee, COR's and other positions like pack trainer and what not.."

 

 

It what BSA publication did you find this information? I have not seen this posted/printed/listed in any BSA source.

 

As I have stated before - This may be what YOUR council is doing, but it is NOT a NATIONAL requirement for ALL councils - as of YET.

 

From the BSA National Web site - May Training Updates -

 

"The plans for a national effort are still UNDETERMINED, as the outcome of the 20 pilot councils will greatly affect the direction we take in 2011 and beyond."

 

As a District Trainer you MUST be VERY careful about NOT spreading rumors, and unsubstantiated BSA "rules".

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

This was stated to me by my DE (now gone) before I took on this job. Acually he said "by the rechartering for 2011") I thought that to mean for this Dec rechartering for 2011.. Now that I have heard more either he meant "in 2011" or I misunderstood him.

 

I have discussed my fear of getting my district (now at a dismal 16% fully trained) up to 100% trained, last night.. with the Director of Field Services (who is our acting DE until we get a new one) His statement was "Don't worry, when it becomes required, people may gripe, but they will get it done.." Not, "Where did you hear this?"

 

JHankins notes from her Council Trainer, on the National meetingand the thought from NYScouter on what they will concentrate on this year & next.. Seem to make me think they may be backing off on WHO will be required to to be trained, but not the date..

 

It's Cryptic.. but it states..

 

Required Training (for leaders who have direct youth contact)

Councils must complete by 12/31/2011.

 

( So seems they may be backing it off to only worring about the SM, ASM, CM, ACM, DL, ADL).. But I don't know about your units, in my unit, all really have direct youth contact.. Advancemnt coordinator, Outdoor Leader coordinator etc..

 

I am pretty certain in talking with my council Training chair about my dismal percentage rating to date, I also brought up the issue of how I was to get people to 100% goal by 2011.. She never corrected me.

 

As far as our council is concerned this is a GO...

 

I don't think people were happy with National springing on them required YPT or no reg at recharter time.. "Ta Da" with no fore warning.. Am I to wait for next June's National meeting when they again spring.. Required training or no reg at rechartering "TaDa"... with no fore warning?

 

Even with all the specifics going on line.. By my count I have 83 SM's & ASM that are required to take outdoor leaders specifics.. Either I would have to train all 83 (angry) Leaders in one big group, or put to gether emergancy extra training sessions.

 

I will talk to the Council training chair again.. Even if I have to soften it with "It is being proposed..." I think it is better to get the word out sooner rather then later.

[Eagle92]

'Nut

 

This was posted in the November 2009 Training Update

 

Twenty councils will pilot required training for top leaders in 2010. Top leaders are Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, Varsity Coaches, Venturing crew Advisors, and Sea Scout Skippers. Plans are to require training for all top leaders in 2011, and all direct-contact leaders in 2012. (bold for emphasis) Direct-contact leaders include all assistant leaders and den leaders. Council training teams should begin to update training records by conducting training inventories of all leaders and begin preparing to make training more readily available.

 

http://scouting.org/Training/TrainingUpdates/Archives/200911.aspx

 

Grant you National may be revisign the timeline now, but up to when the May Training Update was published in mid-May, EVERYONE (emphasis not shouting)

had to be trained by 2012.

[RememberSchiff]

This seems like putting the cart before the horse. Council/District trains volunteers but Council/District has not kept track of who they have trained! Before the BSA can effectively mandate that whoever is whatever trained by such and such a date, you first have to get your record keeping in order.

 

Why doesn't the Centennial Quality Council Award

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/513-190-1_wb.pdf

include a line item like the following:

"11. All leader training records are up to date and these records have been reviewed and certified by all unit training coordinators"...or something to that effect.

 

That said, if I was re-designing this broken process I would augment MyScouting to allow registration of instructor-led courses by Council. At the completion of the course, the instructor lets Council know who completed. Council brings up their courses on MyScouting and checks off the graduates. Whether the scouter is from a different district or transfers later would not matter as his online training information is linked to his name and BSA ID. Council would no longer keep any individual or unit training records that would be National's responsibility.

 

My $0.02

 

[moosetracker]

Thanks Eagle92.. That helps me. I have just been going by what was stated to me by people who should be in the know. How can I get on the list to get this Training update? Sounds like something I need.

 

I also see I will have a narrower scope of who to concentrate on for 2011.

 

But, now you have me confused by your two statements for who needs training in 2012.. The November 2009 Training Update states "direct-contact" meaning Assistants. The mid-May one you said states "EVERYONE".. Maybe it's just me, but everyone, means everyone as in committee and COR's..

 

All JHankins notes from her Council Training Chair stated Direct-contact leader req. training by 2011..

 

Stange.. seems CNYScouter Council is pulling their hair out being a pilot council. But instead of backing off with projected timeline, almost sounds like National is pushing it up.. Your November update compared to your May update & JHankin's national notes, sounds like they are altering things so that 2011 is all direct contact leaders and 2012 will be when the committee & COR's are targeted also.

[moosetracker]

RememberSchiff - this is exactly what I wanted to do.. EXACTLY.. Set up something so that I could email the units with what the council has on file for their review..

 

That is until I saw the dismal reports they allow me access to.. If you are trained for your required position, then all I get to see is the courses you took for your required position (minus YPT & fast start).. If you are not trained, all I get are what courses you need.

 

Therefore I am left with email out to units only a list of those people not fully trained and what they need..

 

Sending out the other report is inaccurate because council has logged more, they just don't have reports for it.

 

In order for us to do our job better, ScoutNet should be designed to offer solid information for those volunteers that are actually trying to do the job. The way it is set up, it makes it hard.

 

I stated last night that I knew some training was not recorded in Council, and examples.. The person who did the job before me was adament he sent the information to Council to be logged.. He says he has the paperwork for the last few years and will send them to me, so that I can reissue them to council.. Problem is, how do you get verification that Council has indeed logged the information.

 

There is no good checks and balance system in ScoutNet. It was designed as if the only people doing the work, are those that work at the Council. Not built for how BSA really operates.