Opinion about On-line specific training

[Adam S]

As District Training Chairman I am torn about this.

 

1. Cub Leaders for the most part are "tourists", their sons may end up in Boy Scouts but typically they do not hold a position outside of the committee if at all. I do not mean this in a bad way at all, it just seems to be how things happen. They seem to know this and tend to not want to invest time heavily in the training ESPECIALLY if they have only one son.

 

2. The Cub's parents are younger they are very in tune with technology, and online learning.

 

3. The Cub AND his parents are busier then we were as kids, they have time constraints and Scouting competes against sports, after school programs, church activities and stuff in general

 

So if Online Training means I get someone trained who would not otherwise have taken any training then I am all for it!

 

BUT I do see GREAT value in an instructor led program, someone with experience they can benefit from, someone who knows the foibles and oddities of the local district and council, someone who walked in the shoes they are about to fill, but mostly someone who cares that the boys have a great Scouting Experience and will do everything they can to make sure the boys are smiling! PLUS they get a chance to network with men & women from other units, who might have a better way of doing something.

 

So what will I do as District Training Chairman? I will continue to encourage training, instructor led whenever possible, but training of any type is better then none. But Online might be a good opporunity I can leverage, the people who come to roundtable are the people who get trained, the ones that pass the training usually skip Roundtable, if they even know it exists! The online training will hopefully mention all the resources available to them, if they leverage any of it, it's more chance for US to educate THEM, I think the online specifics will have a minimal negative impact but have the potantial to drive more LIVE training!

 

The boys are gonna have more fun then ever!

[Adam S]

I forgot to mention the training is at http://olc.scouting.org the fast starts have been updated but the Leader specific Basic Training is not yet online, I heard June 20th as the date for that.

 

And yes I agree with someones earlier comment about online training being initiated by National for a "numbers" reason, BUT I will do everything I can to ensure this actually does turn out better for us in the long run.

 

But I also think it is important to note that the times are changing, this training will probably be a good fit for the generation it targets.

 

And the imaginings that outdoor skills classes will be anything but hands one is silly...

[Scoutfish]

I have taken plenty of training over the course of a year. Both online and in real life.

 

While online can be taken at my convienence: wether 1am or 5 pm is great!

 

But.....You ever try to ask a computer video a question?

[moosetracker]

Your right Adam S, it is hard to imagine outdoor leader training on-line.. But, then it was hard to imagine them putting Specifics on-line.. We have shrunk and altered outdoor leader training to accommidate the busy life-style. I am unsure how much more we can alter it if what we have done is not enough.

 

I have seen outdoor leader training go from 1 saturday before the weekend to get your patrol prepared & then the weekend (3 days total).. To 1 weekend.. to 1 day.. To now combinining OWL & Boyscout outdoor leader training..

 

On top of that currently our district has moved our Outdoor leader training to coincide with the Fall / Spring Camporees.. The adults are already away from home for the weekend with the troop.. While the boys are doing the stations etc. Those adult leaders who need training can spend the day being trained.

 

My husband took it while it was 3 days. When I took it at 2 days, I was overwhelmed. At one point they had me doing 3 things at once, whittling, while preparing a Dutch oven meal, while helping to organize the skits for the evening campfire.. Surprising we did not get whittling chips in the stew.. Anyway I compared my expirence to my husbands who got to relax and socialize and make friendships with his patrol.. I walked away not even knowing my name! I felt I was cheated.

 

Then when I heard they took it to 1 day.. NO WAY can anyone get the same expirience from a one day training.. Now they are combining OWL & Outdoor leader so you are trained for both in one shot, in one day!! Is this quality training?

 

I don't know what else they can do to make it convient for the busy life-style, but make in on-line.. With BadenP's virtual camp and all the virtual marshmallows you can eat by your virtual campfire..

 

Yes, it is a silly image, today. but I may still live to see the day.

[Kudu]

At our most recent staff meeting for Scoutmaster & ASM-Specific Training, I mentioned that Leadership Development had removed the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the PATROL METHOD presentation, and replaced them with EDGE.

 

Our training chair and her female assistant told us NOT to add them back in!

 

We did anyway :-/

 

Online position-specific training will provide Wood Badge "leadership" experts with a direct line to volunteers so that they can deliver the pure EDGE message. This prevents old-timers from adding "old-fashioned" stuff that has no longer has anything to do with the "21st century" PATROL METHOD (like Patrols, Patrol Leaders, and applied Scoutcraft skills)

 

Kudu

 

[moosetracker]

I will need to look at the EDGE more closely. I knew that we are using the EDGE method for training. And I know they have the boyscouts now using the EDGE method to teach younger scouts skills. But, my whole concept of the EDGE method is it is a way to teach other people new skills, be it older scouts with younger scouts, or District Training Staff with Adult leaders.

 

I was not under the impression that EDGE is suppose to somehow replace the Patrol method.. I did not hear of radical changes in the BS program, and not using the patrol method would be a radical change. I know our troop still works under the patrol method.

 

At the same time, I do understand why National makes the syllabus to follow in order that trainers do not train "the old method", or "their own method". Adults when they come to us for training are expecting us to tell them the right information. If we are telling them our style how BSA runs, they all go home from different trainings with various ideas.

 

In that respect on-line training will bring uniformity.. Even if it isn't what we old timers believe to be the best way to run things.

 

For trainers to help with supplimental training, the on-line will force trainers to stay on course with what National wants to promote. As a trainer, if you go out and preach your own style of BSA, you will now have 20 people in the audience that have taken on-line, they will call you out if what you preach is in conflict with the on-line training. So what you add as "extra" information had better not conflict.

[Adam S]

Moosetracker - Our IOLS class is still a 3 day weekend, your council really delivers it in one day? In fact we have a council created class called Woodsman's Thong also a weekend long class because we had such demand for advanced outdoor training from the leaders.

 

I am also confused with EDGE replacing the Patrol Method.

 

BP said "The Patrol is the unit of Scouting always, whether for work or for play, for discipline or for duty. An invaluable step in character training is to put responsibility on to the individual. This is immediately gained in appointing a Patrol Leader to responsible command of his Patrol. It is up to him to take hold of and to develop the qualities of each boy in his Patrol. It sounds a big order, but in practice it works. Then, through emulation and competition between Patrols, you produce a Patrol spirit which is eminently satisfactory, since it raises the tone among the boys and develops a higher standard of efficiency all round. Each boy in the Patrol realises that he is in himself a responsible unit and that the honour of his group depends in some degree on his own ability in playing the game"

 

So while a Patrol might use EDGE as a way to share skills between them, it is much mroe then that...

 

 

[BadenP]

Okay maybe I am old fashioned when it comes to what I think is more effective training as far as boy scout adult training is concerned, IMHO a computer is just a tool to supplement information, it was never intended to be the PRIMARY trainer. I am leaning more and more toward Kudu's way of thinking about the boy scout program, if EDGE, WB in the 21st Century, etc are supposed to be such hot training where are the boys??? Boy scout troops and numbers are continuing to decline each year and I think the trouble is the content and quality of the program being delivered in many troops today. Look, boy scouts is not supposed to be just like the other activities kids do, it has always stood out as something unique and different.

 

The inner city program of the the BSA in the 1970's was a complete failure and Bill Hillcourt had to come out of retirement to rewrite the handbook and program to bring us back to the essential essence of what boy scouting is supposed to be. In the last decade we have seen the "new age wussifying" of boy scout program (my term) to the point that it is little more than a club rather than an encounter with the outdoors and the building of leadership skills. In my opinion Mazzuca is taking us in the wrong direction and I forsee the continuing decline in numbers of boy scouts and troops. Online training becoming the primary method of training new and current leaders will turn out to be a detriment, not an asset, to the quality and competency of the scouting programs delivered in the units. By the time National figures that out it may be too late to salvage what is left of scouting, time will tell.

[Eagle92]

One thing my district is thinking about doing is reserving a local computer lab, have everything set up so that folks can do their training online, and have a few instructors there to help with questions. It's a compromise solution.

 

As for outdoor skills, I've been told that #1 that will still be a weekend long event, #2 national will be combining WeLOT and IOLS, and possibly adding a few venturing things into it, and #3 the new outdoor course will be out some time next year now.

 

As far as EDGE, it just reminds me of the old TELL SHOW DO from back in the day. Concur with KUDU that it is not a replacement for Patrol Method, but rather a tool the PL can use to teach his members.

[Jeffrey H]

I'm all for Leader-Specific training online training with a test at the end of the course. The pass rate can be set at 90%. Set the pass rate high to ensure the candidate understands the material. Test attempts are unlimited. When you pass, you can print out your completion certificate.

 

I have found that adults are more informed and get the basic training they need when you offer it online.

 

 

[moosetracker]

It is hard to find a district in our council that still has it for 2 days, I thought 3 was history everywhere.. So where is the consistancy in that?

 

I have yet to get into my position enough to see a syllabus. I will be curious to see what the syllabus is for Outdoor leader, and how our district is following it.

 

Because of the pace of the course I had in 2 days I know they had to have removed stuff to make it a 1 day course. It runs to about 8:30 - 9 pm so you get the campfire & skits.. But, before we merged it with camporees there was no overnight piece. Even now, you don't need to stay for the overnight camporee. If you do stay, you return to your troop.

 

How can we be following a National Syllabus and doing this?.. Actually is there a Syllabus for this..? My outdoor leader was taken maybe 8 or 9 years ago, at that time, I can guarentee there was no Syllabus. We had a forest ranger come in and just talk. The backpack section a guy who was really into light-weight BP, dumped his pack out and talked about it. No powerpoint.. Just knowledgable guys talking about the stuff they love. It just flowed out of them naturally.

 

So some have stayed at 3 days, National says 2 (or a weekend..) Our Council does only 1 day. Anyone else streamlined down to 1 day?

 

Wow such differing opinions, and I can agree with most of them. So, I'm just wishy-washy on the subject I guess.

[Eagle92]

Moose,

Are you sure you are talking about Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills (IOLS) and not either Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO) or Webelos Leader Outdoor Training (WeLOT). As far as I can remember, the outdoor training a leader took was 3 days.

[moosetracker]

Nope, Boy Scout Outdoor leader Skills (IOLS). I am ashamed to say I did nothing in the way of training while in cub scouts. We were not informed or encouraged to get trained.

 

I did my training while in boy scouts and was the training coordinator for the troop. My husband did 3 days, I did 2 days.. While in the troop and getting other people "trained up" I watched it go down to 1 day. That is where it is at now. Then being offered during the camporees..

 

Maybe we will go back up to 2 when WeLots & IOLS get combined.. (Maybe). Because of my lack of knowledge in cubscout training. I sort of know WeLots (I am assuming this is what use to be OWLS). When I did my outdoor leaders we camped with others doing their OWLS. Both at the time were two day programs, and alot of the classes we trained together, then seperated for others. I am unsure of what BALOO is yet. (I really have to get my skills up on Cub scouts.) I am debating working with the Pack associated with my old troop for a few months as they adjust to the new Cub Scout Program. Maybe I can help them with info I get about the new program, through the training guides and they can help me see it get put into action.

 

Is my district really the odd ball?.. I had no idea! I thought the whole country was changing their training program right along with us.

[ScoutNut]

Our IOLS is Friday evening thru Sunday late afternoon (6PM-3PM).

 

Our OLSWL is all day Saturday (8AM-6PM). It is generally ran with IOLS. They share some class time and break off for others. We used to have the Webelos leaders stay overnight on Saturday. Now they are done, and can leave by 6PM. Some opt to say over anyway and leave in the morning.

 

BALOO is an all day Saturday training (8:30AM-5PM), with no overnight camping at all.

 

 

Moose, may I suggest that you find out EXACTLY what your role is in your council training committee, and then do THAT role well. Trying to do everything, and be everything, connected to training for all program units, is not going to work well.

 

[moosetracker]

Problem is our district training is in shambles. For at least a year we have alot of trainers, and NO ONE in organization for training.

The person who was district committee chair worked 30+ hours keeping the district running including what he could do for training. Our DE was having a war with the committee, he wanted to run things, committee refused to let him.. The war got ugly.

Anyone new who attempted to come in to the District committee soon left, long timers left, some long timers have stayed, but no one wants to take on a titled position, so that they don't get sandwiched in the middle of the war.

So I offered originally to take on Training Chair. The DE said he didn't want me in this position, I would be overwhelmed. So I offered to take on Registrar of Training Records (and kindof relieved after figuring out the true shambles of this committee). The DE decided to make up a new position not in the Training Hiearchy for me.. Training Coordinator.. Position was to do "ALL the work" except for having the ability to look for help for the other positions.. He figured if I did that it would be real easy for him, to find the training chair. (I am thinking "NO ____ Shirlock").. This person would just get to socialize, take the credit, and why bother looking for extra help, while I was playing their cinderalla.) Others in the district saw that too. They just said it could be straightened out once we go a new CC or Program Chair.

Now that they have moved the DE, so that the committee can regroup. I am being asked if I want Training Chair again. Everyone else was excited I wanted the position, it was only the DE. I really don't, but the problem is there is no one but me and some trainers who everytime I am introduce are reaching out to me like drowning victims.

We have no DE, no CC, no program director and in the training committee no one but Trainers and me. In order to help with anything I can't help but feel I need to be all things right now. I am debating suggesting that I take the title of Training Chair temporarily until they find someone (which I know may not be some time, seeing the positions that need filling that are more important.) But, that way I have the authority to do what needs to get done, and maybe search and find some people to fill spots like the cubscout coordinator, BS coordinator etc.

 

Yeah, I do sound like I am clueless but trying to take on everything.. That's because I'm clueless but trying to take on everything..

 

Currently I am now laughingly being introduced as the "training Something", since we have yet to figure out my title. Officially my title is "training Coordinator" because our now ex-DE created the last committee agenda and I was noted on it as such.

But one thing I do know and that is Boy Scout training, and the IOLS at our council is 1 day..