What does Wood badge curtail?

[sst3rd]

BadenP,

 

 

I don't see the words "leaders" or "leadership" in either of your two quotes.

 

I took the slightly older version of Woodbadge. I had already been in Scouting for so long, I didn't learn anything new about operating and delivering the program, but made good friends and added some resources to use. Our Woodbadge Course flowed like a Scout Troop. It validated what my current Troop was doing.

 

I keep current of the program, and deliver it. Keep your Troop's program active, challenging, fun, and "safe", and the Scouts and their friends come on board.

 

The one thing I've become more aware of now a days, is the bully problem. It has to be dealt with swiftly, and with the support of the parent(s). If not, big problems develope, as you can't supervise the program all of the time (trust). My former Troop is dying fast, because of a bully who can do no wrong (per Dad), and his step-grandfather is the Scoutmaster. I've been asked to form a new Troop with all of the defectors.

 

So, have a great program, and they'll come.

 

sst3rd

[BadenP]

sst

 

Both are strongly implied but not directly defined or stated by BP as such.

[JFL49]

Yes, we all stand on the shoulders of Baden-Powell, but we also stand on the shoulders of Seton and Beard and West and Hillcourt and others. Scouting in the United States was always different from Baden-Powell's Scouting. For example, Baden Powell's Scout Law contained 10 points. The BSA version has 12 points.

 

http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/scout_law/chart.htm

 

There are plenty of other differences.

 

Some differences stem from the fact that society in the United States differs from society in Great Britain. Remember - we are two countries separated by a common language.

 

My point it that Scouting in the US has evolved over this past century and also changed from Baden-Powell's initial vision. Some of us may like the evolution, others may not. Training has evolved, some good - some not. Wood Badge has evolved, some good...you get my point.

 

Wood Badge for the 21st century is different from Wood Badge for the 20th century, and different still from Cub Scout Leader Wood Badge. The old Wood Badge isn't coming back. By opening up Wood Badge to ALL Scout Leaders, from Den Leaders, to Pack/Troop/Crew Committee Membes, to MBCs, to CMs, SMs, Crew Advisors, to anyone registered in our Program, the prior Wood Badge emphasis on outdoor skills is significantly diminished in today's Wood Badge, AS IT SHOULD BE. Today's Wood Badge is designed to teach all Scout Leaders how to lead a successful program in a pack, troop, team, crew, ship. Wood Badge for the 21st Century isn't your father's Wood Badge.

 

In fact, Wood Badge for the 21st Century itself is undergoing a change. Now a decade old, a national task force of volunteers is looking at the next version of Wood Badge.

 

My suggestion to any leader who has not yet taken Wood Badge - just do it. If you have reservations - just do it. If you have doubts - just do it. If you are certain that Wood Badge isn't for you - then DON'T do it. Take the course in a neighboring council if you care to.

[jhankins]

For our upcoming course this year, we have 2 4beaders coming back to play and learn the 21st century syllabus. I'm honored to have their experience and talents among the participants. Both of these men are from councils out of our council, and even out of our Area, as they want to see how other councils stick to the syllabus or add their own flair (which we know they shouldn't).

 

I've been talking with my Area Training Chair, and the ideas being tossed around for the next revision of Wood Badge will begin group discussion after Jamboree. If you have input, I suggest you talk to your council training chairs.

[Kudu]

Yes, we all stand on the shoulders of Baden-Powell, but we also stand on the shoulders of Seton and Beard and West and Hillcourt and others. Scouting in the United States was always different from Baden-Powell's Scouting. For example, Baden Powell's Scout Law contained 10 points. The BSA version has 12 points.

 

http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/scout_law/chart.htm

 

The differences between Baden-Powell's Scouting and BSA Scouting are not due to inherent differences in the societies. They are the result of the YMCA's successful bid to take control of the BSA (when it was only one of the six American Scouting associations attempting to go national) with the intention of establishing a national monopoly on Scouting.

 

The BSA Oath & Law tends to be more moralistic because the YMCA got rid of Baden-Powell's Patrol System and replaced it with adult control (what we now know as Scoutmaster Conferences, Boards of Review, Scout Spirit requirements, and even Blue Cards).

 

They also imported the YMCA's night school program in the form of Merit Badges. See "Turning Scouting into School"

 

http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=236888

 

My point it that Scouting in the US has evolved over this past century and also changed from Baden-Powell's initial vision. Some of us may like the evolution, others may not. Training has evolved, some good - some not. Wood Badge has evolved, some good...you get my point.

 

That is not true. Evolution is based on competition. Because the BSA has a monopoly on Scoutcraft in the United States they can eliminate Scoutcraft from Wood Badge without competition from the international Scoutcraft-based Baden-Powell Scouting associations. Our "base" has nowhere else to go, so Wood Badge supporters can "broaden the appeal of Scouting" by recruiting boys who hate Scoutcraft. The 2010 goal is to invest large sums of money on translators so that we can recruit 100,000 Hispanic boys who hate camping.

 

The old Wood Badge isn't coming back. ... prior Wood Badge emphasis on outdoor skills is significantly diminished in today's Wood Badge, AS IT SHOULD BE.

 

We hear the phrase "The old Wood Badge isn't coming back" in every discussion. The reason is that Wood Badge satisfies the adult need for meaning and validation:

 

Question: How do you get people to sit behind a desk for forty years?

 

Answer: Tell them they are "leaders."

 

Question: How do you get office workers to destroy the Boy Scout program?

 

Answer: Tell them boys can benefit from their awesome insight into "leadership" formulas.

 

The meaning of "The old Wood Badge isn't coming back" is clear: "Do not waste our time with reasoned debate, no matter how much damage Wood Badge does to our membership numbers, Wood Badge will stay the course and force corporate manager courses on Scouting. We can always make it up by offering soccer to people who don't speak English."

 

My suggestion to any leader who has not yet taken Wood Badge - just do it. If you have reservations - just do it. If you have doubts - just do it.

 

If you have any doubt that Wood Badge is a cult, just read that over: Don't trust your ability to reason, don't let your disgust at the corporate rape of Scoutcraft and the Patrol Method sway you. Just Do It! When you surrender your sense of right and wrong you will meet new people, all of whom share the same love of corporate management and office team-building exercises. Adult peer pressure will keep you loyal to our cult!"

 

So far only three Wood Badge members in the United States find anything wrong with removing the Patrol Leader from the Patrol Method session of Scoutmaster training.

 

My suggestion to any leader who has not yet taken Wood Badge:

 

1) Purchase a copy of the "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training" course outline and verify for yourself that the "Patrol Method" presentation does not include ONE SINGLE MENTION of a Patrol Leader or a working Patrol.

 

2) Ask around at Roundtable and find the Wood Badge members who Staff your Council's "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training" course.

 

3) Ask them if the Patrol Leader and a working Patrol is important. Then ask them why there is not a single mention of either in the Patrol Method session. Ask why the Patrol Leader and working Patrols were replaced by EDGE theory.

 

4) Remember or record their answers. If getting rid of the Patrol Leaders starts to makes sense to you, then Google "cult indoctrination."

 

The following is typical:

 

dependency - an intense desire to belong, stemming from a lack of self-confidence

 

unassertiveness - a reluctance to say no or question authority

 

gullibility - a tendency to believe what someone says without really thinking about it

 

low tolerance for uncertainty - a need to have any question answered immediately in black-and-white terms

 

disillusionment with the status quo - a feeling of marginalization within one's own culture and a desire to see that culture change

 

naive idealism - a blind belief that everyone is good

 

desire for spiritual meaning - a need to believe that life has a "higher purpose"

 

Yours at 300 feet!

 

Kudu

 

[desertrat77]

Kudu, I'm glad you are back!

 

Though I do not have Kudu's breadth/depth of knowledge, I offer this personal opinion of modern WB: just about every photo, and every verbal account, of every WB session, that I have ever seen and heard, is of participants sitting in the camp mess hall.

 

Patrols are formed, yes, but together they don't seem to go outdoors and do things. Little/to no hiking, monkey bridge building, wood chopping, swimming, campfire cooking, boating, physical activity, save flag ceremonies.

 

Sedentary scouting--emphasis on book learning, sitting in metal chairs for long periods of time, listening to adults speak for most of the meeting, having adults do all the planning-- at the troop level is often the cause of poor advancement and decline in membership.

 

So if WB is truly the pinnacle of adult scouting education, why does the course emphasize methods that run counter to development of thriving units?

 

I'm not advocating the revamp of WB to make it more scouting/outing. Elvis has truly left the building on that count. But it would be nice if a completely new course were offered for adults that was truly challenging, both intellectually and physically, for scouters who want an experience that mirrors the principles that have made scouting a success over the decades--namely, classic scoutcraft and the patrol method.

 

I understand there is such a course, offered at Philmont, but it's for WB grads only.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[jhankins]

Philmont Leadership Challenge is the new course that takes all of the principles taught at Wood Badge and applies them in the back country of the Ranch and you form patrols and run yourselves just as you would run a troop.

 

I'd be interested to hear how that works out. I hear the syllabus provides for lots of outdoor problem solving while hiking, setting up camp, etc..

 

Wood Badge isn't the "pinnacle" of Scout training, it's just the beginning in terms of lifelong learning. It may be listed as "premiere" but those two words have different meanings. One of the strongest tenets of Wood Badge is that we lead best by serving those we lead. If we're leading a group of boys to the top of Mt. Baden-Powell, it behooves us to get the very best outdoor training possible to make that happen. If we're organizing a council event for 10,000 people, it's in the best interest of the boys we serve to be able to understand how to better adapt ourselves to the needs of others, as well as how to best inspire the people around us.

 

Wood Badge does all that. Sure, there's not as much outdoor structure as there used to be, but it doesn't make it any less important. I've seen chiseled mountain men retake WB so they could understand the lingo of their youth from NYLT strive to improve their outdoor skills after first proclaiming that "The REAL Wood Badge is better."

 

 

 

 

[AvidSM]

To say that Wood Badge for the 21st Century is the reason for the decline in membership in the BSA is nonsense. The numbers are down because the majority of boys are not interested in what the BSA has to offer. Boys are more interested in playing video games and Facebook than forming small groups to go camping. Most of the boys in scouting now are there because their parents want them out of the house. Most have dads who were in scouting and want their son's to experience what they did.

 

I have noticed that these dads have a passion for scouting and are motivated to become adult leaders. Some were scouts in the same unit their son is in now. They all seem to know what scouting is all about: boy run, the outdoors, learning scoutcraft and working together as a team. Some get trained - most do not - yes, I know that's all going to change with mandatory training.

 

How these dads (and moms) do things in their units is mostly influenced by tradition, not training. There are as many different ways to run a scout program as there are units out there. In all my visits, I have yet to see two meetings run the same. And, I have yet to see the same mix of activities on the same unit calendar. If training was such a strong influence on these adults, one would see more similarities than differences in the way the program is run in each unit.

 

When it comes to training, people take from it what they see as useful to them. Most of what they learn about the program has come from actually doing it. They don't get trained first and then become leaders - it's the other way around. No Scoutmaster I know of has ever gone to Wood Badge within the first year of taking the position.

 

Wood Badge isn't perfect - it's way too generic. But, I believe it serves a purpose to motivate people to turn their ideas into reality. It is also a good way to meet other more experienced leaders and it helps build scout spirit.

 

As for the old vs. new course, a Scoutmaster is more likely to resolve a conflict between two people in his troop than to show a scout how to pitch a tent.

 

The BSA wants to grow in numbers and will change the program and training to that end. What the volunteers actually do at the unit level is a whole other thing.