What does Wood badge curtail?

[desertrat77]

Bacchus, where does your drop out fall short? On scouting knowledge? Enthusiasm? Human relations? Communication?

 

If it's anything other than scouting knowledge, sure, perhaps he should have finished the course and learned something.

 

If it's scouting knowledge? How much of that does one get from WB today?

 

Even if he graduated, is there any guarantee that he'd be different?

 

(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Lisabob]

I don't think that one can say WB is "make or break" in terms of the quality of scouter contributions. If you send an idiot to training, you get back a trained idiot. And yes, I know plenty of wonderful scouters who have not gone to WB for a variety of reasons. If you are in a council where people check to see how many beads you have before deciding to talk to you, I'm sorry to hear that - But WB does NOT teach or encourage such an attitude. Those same people would probably be unbearable snobs about something else, if it weren't WB.

 

We can quibble about what tangible benefits people gain from WB, and whether they could have (or already have) gained those same benefits elsewhere.

 

Regardless of where people fall on those questions though, what I think every participant gains from WB is a tight-knit network of other highly dedicated and (usually) thoughtful leaders to "talk scouting" with. Let's face it, we have only so many of these folks in our own units, and sometimes it is nice to have outside perspectives. And our spouses may not want to suffer our endless ponderings about scouting. So those WB'ers come in handy, sometimes! (Much like this forum, really, except your WB compadres are local)

 

 

[desertrat77]

Lisabob, well said, thanks for the perspectives.

[JoeBob]

Thanks for the replies. Appologies for the thread re-direct. (The title did say 'CURTAIL')

 

I'm actually a tad concerned that WB might discourage my interest in scouting.

 

You see, I take pride in be politically INcorrect. Much of the PC BS that gets taken as fact, I like to tear apart. 'Diversity' as a goal does not interest me. (Nope, I'm not a bigot or a racist. You'd be very wrong to assume so.) Without youth present, there is a definite chance that I would use my college debate skills to destroy the wood badge curriculum, and ruin it for my classmates. But I really can't predict that, because the course syllabus is secret.

 

In fact, I'm probably the sort of 'Old School' scouter (Scouting should teach boys to enjoy releasing testoterone with appropriate control.) that the new guard would like to see edged towards the door. As long as my boy is in scouting, I'm not sure that I want to give them the chance.

 

Thank you all for your sage advise on both sides of the decision. I'm going to solicit specific face to face input from WB graduates I know.

 

JoeBob

 

[bacchus]

Desert: "Bacchus, where does your drop out fall short? On scouting knowledge? Enthusiasm? Human relations? Communication?"

 

It would probably fit into "attitude". Meaning that if somebody does not have the intention of doing everything they can to be a successful adult leader, then they don't really care to be the best adult leader they can be.

 

"Even if he graduated, is there any guarantee that he'd be different?"

 

Yes. I would definitely see a different attitude.

[desertrat77]

Bacchus, if you can guarantee that WB changes attitudes, well, that's a pretty darn powerful course.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't seen this from the WBers I've worked with over the decades. Many are great scouters, but their attitudes were probably good before they took the course. The course only made it better.

 

There are just as many examples at the opposite end of the WB spectrum as well.

 

Again, I don't think there is any proof that a WBer is a better scouter than a non-WBer. Depends on the individual.

 

[Lisabob]

The question should not be "Is a WB scouter better than a scouter who has not done WB?"

 

The question might be: "Is a specific scouter a better scouter after WB, than s/he was before WB?"

[bacchus]

Desert,

So you actually believe that not taking WB really makes some people better adult scout leaders?

[desertrat77]

Bacchus,

 

I believe that one can be a good scouter without taking WB. I do not believe that WB is the litmus test for proof of scouter dedication. I don't believe that WB will fix everything. I believe that WB is an optional course, and if someone wishes to take it, I wish them the best.

 

Desertrat77

[Kudu]

Read the Patrol Method presentation of Scoutmaster-Specific Training to see for yourself that ANY mention of a Patrol Leader or a working Patrol has been removed to make room for EDGE theory.

 

Wood Badge gives you the confidence to say "So what?"

 

To understand what Wood Badge has done to the Boy Scout program, read the "Modernization of Scouting" thread:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=278693

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[jhankins]

I personally believe the challenges and mirror that can be held up to a Scouter during Wood Badge makes them a better leader, and a better person.

 

During my first year on staff we had three people in particular who didn't like what they saw in themselves that came out during the course, and tried to blame the staff for "Showing me how despicable" they were to themselves. On the last day, the course director had to tell them that if they hadn't gotten the message of Wood Badge by then, then perhaps the ticket process would help.

 

Now 10 months later having worked the process, talked to others in their life they trust, they're totally different people! It took some time for them to come around, but one in particular hugged me at my Ordeal and said, "Thanks for being patient with me, I finally got it."

 

We've had people during the third day's activities break down in tears while partaking in the Team development exercise, and realize they had some baggage from their past or dealing with something similar to what's in the film. Seeing patrols surround a struggling team mate is a sight to see.

 

We've had Venturers so impress "old school" scoutmasters that they've invited those young people to their troops to talk about forming crews.

 

We've had patrols so moved by the World Friendship Fund and the Interfaith service that they've each taken on different ticket items to help scouts around the world in some way.

 

I could go on, but I think I've made the point. Wood Badge creates a culture of leadership and change. If the staff can project that, and project the vision of the course director over the course, amazing things can happen.

[jhankins]

I'm not saying you have to take Wood Badge to be a successful leader, but it gets people on the same page of the youth that are taking NYLT.

 

Good leaders are good people. Wood Badge only supplements those skills.

[John-in-KC]

Lisa, as she often does, said much of what I wanted to say :-)

 

As adults, Scouting is about relationships ... Our role is to put program resources where our young charges will find them and make use of them. Like many others here, the leadership psych of WB was a review of very well plowed ground. What was new to me was the additional access I obtained to people and their skills, in part because I went out-of-Council for my course.

 

For an Army guy, one way to think of WB is to think about ANCOC or the Sergeants Major Course. It's a shared moment you have in common with the guy on your left and on your right. Another way to think about it is when you step on the freedom bird after a year in-theater, along with all your mates. You share a common bond.

 

BTW: EDGE is buzzword Bingo. People who wear tree suits can substitute BTMS how to train for edge. Exact same content. If you've been around TRADOC for any length of time, EDGE is the fundamental piece of the Instructor Training Course. Sadly, from my observation post , too many adults do not know how to train people to train other people. Even so, Kudu is right that EDGE shod not have displaced the patrol method in program training for Scouters

[Gary_Miller]

BS WB taught me the proper way a troop and a patrol should function. It gave me the skills and confidence needed to teach the youth the proper way to organize a troop and the ability to let the youth be in charge of the troop. I learned how to sit back and just watch things happen. Since BS WB I have been relax at camp and not worry about what the guys are doing. I have taken many more naps at camp after Wood Badge than I did before.

 

A couple of years after I attended BS WB. I was serving on the district as the CS Round Table Commissioner. So I attended CS Train the Trainer Wood Badge. Which again gave me the skills and confidence needed to train adults.

 

I have never regretted attending either WB Course. They both made me a better leader than I was before. They gave me the skills and confidence needed to train others in their positions.

 

 

 

 

[JFL49]

As with most things in life, you get out of Wood Badge what you put into it. If you come into the program with an open mind, you'll probably learn a great deal about yourself and the other Scouters who are taking the course along side of you, as well as the Staffers. Taking the course with a closed mind or a desire to debate the fine points of the EDGE method, or the role of interfaith services, or managing conflict, then you will likely not learn much.

 

I spent 30 years in the Navy and retired as an O-6. I've participated in more management development programs, with both big and small companies, than I care to remember. I've had the honor of serving on Wood Badge staff 4 times and this year will be my 5th staff experience. Yet every time I've been a Wood Badge staffer, every time, I've learned something new about myself, about people in general.

 

But that's me - your mileage may vary.

 

When I recruit participants for Wood Badge, I voice many of the same advantages as others have so eloquently noted on the forum. But I also realize, and will tell Scouters, that Wood Badge is not for everyone. If you think that Wood Badge might help you in Scouting, then by all means take the course. If you don't believe that Wood Badge is for you, then I respect your decision, and I still thank you for your service to one of the greatest youth movements in the world.

 

It's your move....