What does Wood badge curtail?

[Twocubdad]

Frankly, fish, this is about the third time you've asked this and have pretty much received the same advice. If you really want to take Wood Badge, do it.

 

But with the idea that there are probably a lot of folks reading this asking the same questions, this is my best advice to brand new Scouters think about taking Wood Badge:

 

1. A prerequsite of Wood Badge is to be fully trained for your primary registered position. In your case, fish, you need to complete Web-specific, which you are taking next month, AND Outdoor Leadership Skills, which you did not mention.

 

2. Cub Scout leaders should absolutely take Wood Badge. Part of the "new" (now a decade old) course is to include Cub leaders where before Cub Scout Wood Badge was an entirely different course focused on teaching Cub Scout adult training. The big picture of WB is learning to run a volunteer organization. Cub Scout packs can absolutely benefit WB-trained leaders. Understand, however, much of the course remains focused on the Boy Scout program. If I recall the syllabus correctly, "dens" graduate into "patrols" the second morning. While Cub Scout leaders will gain a great deal of leadership training, the program-specific elements are mostly targeted toward Boy Scout.

 

3. And this is my personal opinion based on my experience. You need a full year of solid program experience under your belt to get the most out of the program. And by that I mean a full year running the program as a trained leader. In your situation, fish, that would mean a year plus from now. Finish your training and spend a year running a den. Then take WB next year at the earliest. While your excitement and enthusiasm are commendable -- and will make for a terrific Webelos Den Leader -- quite frankly, you don't yet know what you don't know.

 

My experience with Wood Badge was as a third-year Cubmaster who had been in the program a total of five years. At the time my oldest son was in the troop and I was also serving as an ASM (for which I was fully trained). Between the first and second Wood Badge weekends our Scoutmaster announced his intention to step down and I agreed to take over. At the time, the pack was flush with leaders, including a well-qualified Assistant Cubmaster, but the troop really needed help.

 

So I finished Wood Badge as a brand-new Scoutmaster. I wouldn't recommend it. I know I would have gotten much more out of the course had I been able to focus on Cubmaster. Or had I waited a year and focused on Scoutmaster. That is a reason Wood Badge asks participants to focus on their primary registered position (especially in reference to tickets) and not try to wear mutiple hats.

 

As has been written, much of Wood Badge is self-reflection -- not just personally, but with respect to the program you are running. I found the course to be filled with little a-ha moments of things we could apply to the pack program. In my case, I unfortunately was no longer going to be around to implement those in the pack, and I really didn't know enough about the troop to be of help.

 

Fortunately, I was asked to serve on staff the following year, so I essentially had the opportunity to experience the course as a second-year Scoutmaster. That I focused more on the patrol aspects of Wood Badge and the job of taking the leadership lesson and teaching them to Boy Scouts.

 

 

 

 

[BrentAllen]

A big part of WB is looking at your current unit or group (be it a Pack, Troop, Committee, Den, etc.), understanding where it is now, having a vision of where you would like it to be, and putting together a plan to get it to that point. This can be very hard to do if one hasn't been part of that group for at least a year.

 

Also, there are certain times in a Scouter's career when taking WB can be very difficult and frustrating. I think the worst would be for a Webelos II leader who's son will be graduating up Boy Scouts. Unless the course is taken at the beginning of the Webelos II program year (August/September), the leader is going to have a hard time finishing his ticket before the boys cross over to Boy Scouts. They can't really write it for the Boy Scouts, unless they know which Troop their son is going to join and they have some leadership experience with that Troop.

 

WB is a great course, but consideration needs to be given as to the appropriate time to take it.

[nolesrule]

" If I recall the syllabus correctly, "dens" graduate into "patrols" the second morning."

 

Our crossover was at lunch (B&G) of the first day. Without giving away too much, the focus of the course formatting (program-wise, not training-wise) is essentially one month in the life of a Boy Scout troop compressed into the remaining 5 and a fraction days.

 

I concur with those that recommend having some time under your belt. In order to get the most out of Wood Badge, you will need to have a vision for where you want yourself and your unit to be within the scope of the BSA program. Until you have a solid understanding of where you are currently, it can be difficult to identify what you will need in order to carry out the application phase of Wood Badge affectionately known as "The Ticket".

 

Just an observation from someone who just completed the training portion of Wood badge last week after having served as a Unit Commissioner for the past 4.5 years.

[bacchus]

Valid points about getting some leadership time pre-Wood Badge. Be aware that 18 year old youth are now invited. So if you think you are going to some camp that's intended for experienced, older scouters you might want to reconsider.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

WOW! That is sooo what I was trying to say. LOL!

 

That's what I meant by getting more time under my belt in order to have something for WB to enhance.

 

because I do not yet know what I don't know!

 

Unless I do but don't realize it yet! LOL!

 

 

 

[JoeBob]

I think y'all may have curtailed my interest in Woodbadge.

 

I'm being recruited to take Woodbadge, and I'm pretty sure that it's not worth six days of my life. With time being finite, I believe that those 6 days, plus ticket time, would be better spent with my pack and family.

 

My resume: Eagle Scout at 15, commercial whitewater guide for 6 summers, NCO in 2nd Ranger BN, played in the corporate world long enough to see through Tony Robbins and appreciate Ken Blanchard. Now I've a son rising to Webelos I and I'll be CM for the next two years. I'll move through scouting with my son, and probably will not be involved any longer than he. We have a healthy pack of 80 with a good committee and a complete program.

 

Is there any reason at all I should take Woodbadge?

 

The only element that interests me in all of your discussions is the running of a 'Volunteer Organization'.

 

Thanks for all the usefull insight provided in this thread. I'm chewing on it...

 

 

[Gary_Miller]

JoeBob "Is there any reason at all I should take Wood badge?"

 

I will answer this by remarking to you other remarks.

 

JoeBob "I think y'all may have curtailed my interest in Wood badge."

 

I hope by the end of my remarks you will change your mind.

 

JoeBob "I'm being recruited to take Wood badge, and I'm pretty sure that it's not worth six days of my life. With time being finite, I believe that those 6 days, plus ticket time, would be better spent with my pack and family."

 

I believe as a Scout Leader and Parent that the six days your attend WB will be that "better time spent" for your Pack and your Family. The information, training, friendships and awakening you get from WB will make a difference in your relationship with your wife, children and scouting service.

 

JoeBob "My resume: Eagle Scout at 15,"

 

Lofty achievement but does not make one a great leader. The is more to being an adult Scout Leader than what you learned as a Boy Scout. WB will give you the knowledge needed to become an adult Scout Leader.

 

JoeBob "commercial whitewater guide for 6 summers,"

 

Ok so you know how to take responsibility for a group of people you don't know for longer then a couple of hours. But can you take a group of youth and turn them in to leaders of youth? WB will help you do that.

 

JoeBob "NCO in 2nd Ranger BN,"

 

Good for you and I thank you for your service. However, I went to WB for the first time under the encouragement of my Chief of Operations, an Major in the USAF. He told me he wished that all his NCOs could have the training that WB has to offer. It was much better than attending Air Force Leadership School. He was not wrong. (Retired MSgt USAF, 1981-2002)

 

JoeBob "played in the corporate world long enough to see through Tony Robbins and appreciate Ken Blanchard."

 

WB will give you leadership skills that you can never learn in the corporate world.

 

JoeBob "Now I've a son rising to Webelos I and I'll be CM for the next two years."

 

You will be a much better CM with the training you will receive in WB.

 

JoeBob "I'll move through scouting with my son, and probably will not be involved any longer than he."

 

Not if you attend WB you will want to be involved for life. You will want to be buried in your scout uniform. But then maybe being hooked for life is what your afraid of.

 

JoeBob "We have a healthy pack of 80 with a good committee and a complete program."

 

After WB you will have an outstanding pack and a better program, because you will have gotten scouting fever.

 

JoeBob "Is there any reason at all I should take Woodbadge?"

 

Because you want to be the best leader for the boys that you can.

 

Because you want to be able to provide the best program you can for the boys.

 

Because as an Eagle Scout you know that you should learn and do all you can to have a positive influence on the world. What better way than being a trained experienced adult leader.

 

And most important because you want to be a better husband and father.

 

JoeBob "The only element that interests me in all of your discussions is the running of a 'Volunteer Organization'."

 

The only element that should interest you is the ability to help a "Young Man" grow in to a "Capable Adult and Father". WB will help you do that.

 

JoeBob "Thanks for all the useful insight provided in this thread. I'm chewing on it..."

 

The chewing time it over it time to swallow and get it done.

 

Good luck with your Wood badge course.

 

Now go do the right thing.(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

[Lisabob]

There are a bunch of intangible benefits to WB. Among them: WB helps you leverage other people to make them more effective resources, and WB also helps you make connections and "network" in your local scouting community.

 

I took WB when my son was a rising WI. It is really the major reason I stayed involved in scouting as an adult, after cub scouting. I learned a lot of things about scouting that, as a plain-vanilla adult leader, I never would have seen, otherwise. Since my son joined a troop that is not very active in council/district programs, my WB connections helped me to know that there were broader horizons "out there" than just the unit, and many alternate ways to run a unit. This has been helpful for me, and for my son as he gets older, when the unit program has not been what he really wanted it to be.

 

WB gave me a network of dedicated scouters, and it helped (and continues to help) me "charge" my scouting batteries. Wood Badgers are a passionate lot, when it comes to scouting. For the most part, they are an invigorating group to be part of.

 

I took WB in 2003. Seven years later, I still find the connections I made there to be useful, often in unexpected ways. Earlier this week, I had a difficult conversation with a scoutmaster of another troop, about some misbehavior that involved boys from a number of different troops, at a recent council event. We sort of danced around things for a while. Finally, I said something to him like: "You know, we went through WB together. We can surely talk frankly with one another and figure things out, here." He laughed and agreed. Conversation flowed so much more smoothly and solutions were brainstormed, after that. Our shared WB experience was a basis for mutual trust, even though we've seldom had opportunity to interact since that time. Without WB, we might never have felt comfortable having the real conversation that needed to take place there.

 

Joe Bob, there are as many reasons as there are minutes in a day to NOT do something, if you really don't want to do it. And WB is neither a mystical experience nor a panacea. But I do agree it will make you a more effective scouter, in ways large and small.

[desertrat77]

Gary, nice sales pitch, well done.

 

But, after 26 year of military service, and many years of night school, I can safely say I've been satisfactorily empowered, had cheese stolen, managed minutes, embarked on total quality management journeys that never ended, and have otherwise been Blanchard-ed, Deming'd, Covey'd, Leaned, Six Sigma'd, Taylor'd, Maslow'd, Drucker'd, Fayol'd, all to the point of distraction and disorientation. Plus, I might draw disability for having been beat about the head and shoulders with Cog's Ladder.

 

The thought of rehashing this, or something like it, in a camp mess hall for two weekends is more than I can bear.

 

I wish WBers and candidates all the best, but at this point in life, 1 day with my family is more valuable. If this makes me a bad scouter, and a bad person, then I shall somehow stumble through life anyhow, in my ignorant, unwashed, and unbeaded state.

 

[Gary_Miller]

desertrat77, "The thought of rehashing this, or something like it, in a camp mess hall for two weekends is more than I can bear."

 

The thought of a young man not having the best trained leader possible is something that I find hard to understand. Especially coming from a someone with your background. Who should understand the importance of being well trained.

 

desertrat77,"I wish WBers and candidates all the best, but at this point in life, 1 day with my family is more valuable."

 

I understand how one can feel this way. However, in the end it will be a benefit to your family as well.

 

desertrat77,"If this makes me a bad scouter, and a bad person, then I shall somehow stumble through life anyhow, in my ignorant, unwashed, and unbeaded state."

 

I don't think it makes you a bad scouter or a bad person.

 

However, the experience one has at WB will change your life for ever and will make you a better leader. Which in turn makes for better Youth lead programs, which leads to better trained scouts, which in turn leads to better citizens, employees, and Fathers.

 

WB is not about you it about all the youth you come in contact with through your scouting service.

[desertrat77]

Gary, what evidence exists that WBers are better scouters than non-WBers?

[sbemis1]

Around here many of them will be only too happy to tell you so.

Many attendees get a lot out of the course. Your own results may vary.

 

Been there, didn't complete that, no interest in returning to do so.

 

[bacchus]

One of our scouters went to the first weekend and never returned for the second, nor did any tickets. Maybe due to the game, I don't know. Anyway, he's now a major player in the scout program, and the lack of training shows.

 

It's tough to be trained and have somebody else trying to tell you how to do things when they "know how it's supposed to work" but you know they don't even know what they don't know - and don't even care to learn.

[desertrat77]

Sbemis, that's my point exactly!

 

If WBers want to have a mountain top experience, more power to them.

 

If it makes someone a better scouter, great. But it's not for everyone, and that doesn't make them lesser scouters. For someone to claim that a) WB is the pinnacle of scouting leadership and b) if you don't attend you are a lesser scouter for it, well, that's unproven territory.

 

It's always distateful for someone to wave their degree, or duty title, or standing in the community, in your face, with the upshot being that if you had any gumption at all, you'd be as good as them, and that their degree/position/standing makes them a better person.

 

So what evidence is out there that makes the WBer better than the non WBer? I think it depends on the individual scouter. There are many WBers that are far superior scouters than I could every hope to be. Converesely, there are non-WBers that WBers couldn't hold a candle to.

 

My gripe isn't with WB per se, but the bandwagon/anybody-who-wants-to-have-any-standing-at- all-in-scouting-will-take-this-course-viewpoint.

[Stosh]

I'm really on the fence with this one.

 

I'm extensively trained in Business Management and have had a lot of training in psychology and have worked with kids for 40 years. I have had pretty much every bit of training BSA can provide Cub through Venturing and WB (1993) along with working on a doctorate through the University of Scouting, and have EMT, Am. Red Cross First Aid and CPR, etc. etc. etc. until it comes out my kazoo.

 

I train my boys in both the modern NYLT material as well as the Green Bar Bill curriculum.

 

Would I recommend WB? I would have to answer with a resounding, "I don't know!"

 

I have seen some excellent leaders out there that are not WB trained and some WB people I don't have the time of day for.

 

So what would I recommend? If one feels that by taking WB it might give them a bump up in their skills and be able to do a better job, or make them feel more confident, or improve their program, then go for it. If one is confident in what they are doing, their boys are doing well, are excited about the program, progressing and growing, then maybe take a pass.

 

How's that for decisively indecisive!

 

Stosh