Lone Scouting

[momandscout]

I was not sure where to post this with so many topics. This one seemed more miscellaneous, so here it goes.

 

We are homeschoolers. We have been in the local regular cub pack since Wolf, and are now Webelos 1. I am a very involved parent, but have a toddler to care for at most meetings so I cannot be an official leader (hubby works evenings), but I am on the committee. Our den leader is good butother leaders are ..... We are not always comfotable with how things are run or the lack of iniciative/enthusiasim (sp) for doing the extras. Unfortunatly for our area, there is not another 'local' cub scout group (they are what I consider to be to far for regular involvement). We also have a problem that we cannot always make meetings, we miss at least one a month unplanned - it is different when you plan to miss it.

 

Also as homeschoolers, we use the scouting programs as a basis for most of our unit studies, suplamenting the '3Rs'.

Technically, my son could earn his AOL by next summer or early fall after attending summer camp and all of this years work. However, the den will not be ready until Dec-Feb. I don't mind this because we work on stuff slow to be sure he knows it and expand it to learn other aspects as well. We have also been putting a focus on the Sports and Academics program to slow down our Webelos activities even more. But I fear he will still achieve his AOL sooner because of the Webelos program being two years and we are kinda geared to the one year thing. I also don't want to slow my sons enthusiasm to make eagle and join a 'crew' (he wants to be a sea scout too).

 

I have been researching scouting to see what options are available and what I can offer or provide information about to our pack. Many of the leaders are not interested the extra award activities like donor awareness or crime prevention that I have suggested when talking to them. There are so many out there I would think they would want to do some. I was also looking into the Boy Scout program so I can be more prepared for what he will need to learn.

 

In my research I came across information about Lone Scouting. With limited information available, I found this forum and would like your opinions and responses to several questions. I am considering planning a visit with the district executive, and want to go prepared. The websites say that many have little if any knowledge of the Lone Scout program. Here are my current questions:

 

1) Can a Lone boy or Cub Scout regularly participate in a local pack troop? This would be an average of 2 meetings a month, some months none, some months all, depending on our schedule and need as well as optional 'event' participation like Derbys and camping. There is a homeschool troop/pack we could arrange to meet with occassionally but they are to far away for regular or even once a month meetings. (We would pay for my sons awards and make any requested donations for any supplies used from the pack.)

 

2) As a parent/ counselor, what type of training would I need?

 

3) As a Lone Boy Scout, would he need to meet with a Merit Badge Counselor, or would I be it? Would I need training for each one?

 

4) Would this be a good way to try to start a new pack/troop in our area for homeschoolers? (Get others to LoneScout as a group until/if we have enough to form a proper pack/troop).

 

5) Would we be able to get a scout shop account to put like popcorn money into?

 

6) Is there information available (on-line?) about how to start a new pack/troop?

 

This is just an option we are considering. There are many other personal weights to this decission besides the above statements and questions. We really enjoy scouting and would like to stay with the program through both boys (another 10 plus years).

 

I would like to thank you in advance for your responses. They will help us descide what to do.

 

Thank you

 

momandscout

 

 

[sctmom]

If you know other homeschoolers in your area that are interested in Scouts I would recommend starting a new troop. You don't need a large number of boys to have a troop. You do need a charter organization, which can be "Local Homeschoolers" -- made up of the interested parents. Where I live some homeschoolers have formed their own pack and troop.

 

Most of these questions can be answered by your DE and in my opinion should be answered by your DE.

 

When you speak of your son earning his AOL early, do be aware that one of the requirements is 6 months AFTER turning 10 or after completing the 4th grade. I know you may not have a "date" that he "completes" 4th grade, so you need to go by his birthday. Just because he has done all the other requirements does not guarantee he is ready for Boy Scouts. AOL should take about 1 1/2 years.

 

From what I have read about Lone Scouting, they are welcome to visit packs/troops when possible. There was an article in Scouting magazine about a couple of Lone Scouts who travel with their families. Do a search on the web and you should find them. One has his own webpage. He tries to visit packs/troops as often as possible.

 

Good luck.

 

[MomScouter]

I have a couple mpre questions alone this line...what about boys who CHOOSE to be a Lone Scout even though there are troops nearby? I know of a local family and she asked me if her son could become a Lone Scout. She homeschools, and her daughters are 'Juliettes' (lone Girl Scouts). I also know a boy who is in a troop and not happy with it, and would like to be a Lone Scout. When I asked my DE about it, he said that no one should be a Lone Scout when there are troops available...and that was the end of that.

 

How does a Lone Scout fulfill rank rqmts of leadership in the troop?

 

 

[ozemu]

This topic came up before. The discussion was a little different but might be interesting nevertheless.

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=6478

[sctmom]

Take a look at this page:

http://www.geocities.com/lonezrule/links.html

 

One of the links is to the BSA fact sheet about Lone Scouts. One way a boy can be eligible to be a Lone Scout is "being home schooled". That right there gives you the "right" to be a lone scout.

 

Hope that link will answer some of your questions.

 

[mk9750]

I admit to having almost no real information about lone scouts, but I do have an oppinion.

As much as I think it is great that there is some mechanism to allow a truly isolated boy, or one who travels, to participate in scouting, I think it should be the last resort. There are so many good things about scouts, cub or boy. Outdoor skills, first aid skills, exposure to potential careers, etc. But the two bigest values I have seen in 10 years through both programs are the necesary development in skills to work cooperatively, and leadership development. These two benefits cannot be realized without a pack or troop.

In our troop, we teach our boys that we want more from them than just be leaders. We want each boy to learn to be a leader of leaders. How does a boy learn to do this without a troop? And for home schooled boys, it becomes even more important to work within the framework of a troop. Whether or not one agrees with the concept of home schooling, I think no one could argue that a boy can get neither benefit above in a home school environment. And without that opportunity, Scouting in its complete form becomes even more valuable.

I know that the lack of a troop that satisfies a boy's, and his parents, expectations might make someone desire to attempt scouting alone. But I really believe this is contrary to desired ends of the program. What does it say to a boy when we demonstrate that if they don't like a situation, we should avoid it? Using the same arguement, whenever the government passes a law that we don't agree with, we should leave the country. No, I think that's not what scouting, or citizenship, is all about. If the problem is important enough, let's roll up our sleeves and fix it. If it's not that big a deal, then live with it.

I try not to be confrontational in these forums, because the vast majority of positions are both reasonable, and even when I think wrong, are held with the best interest of boys in mind. But the idea of turning to Lone Scouts when a pack or troop is available is not in the best interest of any boy. I urge you to reconsider.

Good luck to you!

Mark

[eagle90]

mk9750 -

 

I was just trying to compose an answer on this topic when I read yours. It is exactly what was going thru my mind. WELL SAID!

 

[ozemu]

Here is an alternative view to that put up by mk9750 and eagle90. No malice intended and I respect their opinion. I think though that there are other elements to the "Lones or local' decision.

 

Many of the situations in my mind require a decision:

 

to change the local Troop - which is an enormous task with a high chance of not working out and would probably require both son and parent involvement, or

 

to either follow scouting by single effort - likely to be a bigger effort than attending but not changing a local troop.

 

Both options in the decision require more than the standard effort. Apart from the philosophical things there are simple problems of time, space and emotional investment which impact on all other aspects of the family. These practical things must be weighed before a move can be made either way. Does the family have the resources for both the above options or is only one reasonable for them?

 

A bit like the government law analogy. I don't agree with some government decisions either but in trying to keep the wolf from the door and my family in one piece I choose to stay in the country and don't lobby, protest or write letters. I accept that the world is not perfect and that my sphere of influence is only so big. My effort will have a greater impact in other arena's.

 

I have seen lots of kids leave scouting because they don't have the basic resources to effect change. The job was too big. If one wants to become a 'Lone' rather than leave all together then that is one more who gets some benefit from the program.

 

Momandscout's situation will have lots of variables. She cannot become a leader but they may have the drive, creativity and fortitude to effect change in the Troop.

[ozemu]

Momandscout, can you work on the extra's that you mentioned by collecting an 'ad hoc' patrol of scouts from other Troops in the district? A little like the Merit Badge Universities that some Districts seem to have. This way your son could progress in these areas without waiting for or dragging unwillingly the rest of the Webelos / Scouts in your local Pack/Troop.

 

Would the extra's provide an acceptable break to your son's personal progress toward cross-over? (ie will this give him more to do so that he is not oustripping his mates in their progression through only the essentials?).

 

I have some sympathy. My daughter crossed over to Scouts at the minimum age and has rocketed along getting to the first of our three levels in six months (normally a year or so). Consequently she is now a year ahead of her mates and I am wondering how to keep her interested. Also our highest level is pretty rigorous and she may not be mature enough when she gets there if I don't find a way of slowing her down. At the current rate she will need to lead a three day expedition without any adult involvement at the age of 12.

[KoreaScouter]

Lone Scouting is designed for situations involving distance, disability, or some other unavoidable situation that prevents a boy from registering with and participating in a troop program.

 

How much distance? How severe a disability? What situations are unavoidable? Best to discuss that with your DE. I've had homeschooled Scouts in the troop I serve, and they thrive on the interaction with their peers. Moreover, the diversity within the troop, combined with the leadership opportunities, gives them unique experiences. In fact, I'm curious as to why a family interested in Scouting wouldn't join a nearby troop (assuming it's well-run by BSA standards -- see unit commissioner "report cards").

 

The stark truth is that there are boys who want to carry an Eagle Scout card without the "bother" of leadership positions, troop/patrol meetings, working with "inconvenient" MB counselors, and so on. The aims and methods of Scouting are best delivered, and absorbed, in a troop/patrol setting.

 

I don't know your family, and cannot question your motives. If there's a good troop meeting near you, all other things being equal, that's where your son belongs. If you'd like some advice on what to look for in a good troop, let us know...

 

KS

[mk9750]

Ozemu,

I think you have made some valuable points. As I composed my original comments, what I had in my mind actually adressed exactly what you say, but did a poor job translating it to paper. I did speak around it though, so let me explian.

Assuming a boy is of the mind to get value out of Scouting (and I don't believe every boy is), there are many degrees of three possible types of troops. In the best, the boy and the troop are a great match, and each gets great value from its association with the other. The opposite exists when there is absolutely no value to either scout or troop by belonging to a specific troop. This obviously is rare. The third possiblity is everything in between.

For boys in this situation, where not everything is perfect, a decision must be made as to both how much effort one is willing to expend changing that which he does not like, and how much he is willing to put up with that he doesn't like.

Let's look at an example. If the boy likes Scouting, and generally likes the troop, but feels that the troop could be doing more high venture stuff, he could get himself on the PLC and present the idea. If he needs to recruit other boys who feel the same way, he can. If he can get a malority of the PLC to agree, but adults won't help find a way to make it happen, he can push, he can find the resources on his own, he can lobby, he can do most anything (in a scout - like manner) to make it happen. Anyone, including a boy, who is committed to an idea can bring it to fruition.

If, however, he just thinks that high venture stuff is a good idea, and is not really committed, he has the option of accepting that fact without putting any effort into changing the troop, or at any point along the spectrum of effort expended.

But in any case, the boy will certainly have been better by his association with the troop. He will have learned cooperation, camped with friends, been influenced and made to deal with adults, ben led by other boys, and eventually will have led others. All of these benefits are missing when a boy goes the lone scout route.

And lastly, and I readily admit this is my predjudice, I really believe that the problems a boy, and more often his parents, have with a troop are unreasonable expectations of what the troop is and does. We had one mom who had a MAJOR fit because the ASPL yelled at her son for playing near a creek so closely that he fell in. This was at Klondike, and the tempurature was @ 30 degrees. Before I get too far, we did speak with the ASPL about a better way to handle this. But the point is, she was mad because we never told her son not to play near the creek before he fell in. She felt it was our responsiblity to make sure he knew that getting wet during the winter was a bad idea. We spent three weeks before the Klondike having boys teach the new guys winter camping skills, including avoiding getting wet, and the consequences. But we never said "Johny, don't fall in the river". And because we didn't hold his hand and explain the obvious to him, mom thought he should have never been disciplined. "His feelings were hurt", and "he felt like a dumb kid". The boy wasn't dumb, but getting wet during an outside event in the winter in our area is dumb. But the mom thought it was our responsiblity to teach him that.

Scouting in a troop environment has to be better in almost every case than going to lone scouting. When the parent believes that it is not, I suggest that it is the parent's problem, and that should be addressed before a boy is made to endure missing out on the experience of being in a troop.

[Compass]

momandscout,

 

To start our troop, we had to have 5 boys and 5 adults (Scoutmaster, Charter Organization Representative, Committee Chairman, the rest Committee men).

 

We home school, so I have a similar perspective.

 

I have to tell you, the others are making valid points. Going the Lone Scout route, while available to you as a home schooler, is not the best for your son. You would be denying him the opportunity, joys, and heartaches of troop leadership. He would not experience the participatory democracy of the republican (not the party, but government style) form of troop government, involving communication, debate, persuasion, and voting, as opposed to tyrannical, top-down governance. And, frankly, you as a parent can not be totally aware of your son's less-desirable traits, but other boys will be and they can (and will) let him know about it (a good thing-- part of 'rounding-off the rough edges' of his personality). Peer pressure (when good) can reinforce what you are trying to teach him, Mom, such as keeping track of his stuff, keeping his stuff clean and maintained, personal hygiene (some may differ on this one, but I've seen that even boys have limits ) and so on.

 

I (reluctantly) considered Lone Scouting as an option this past summer and early fall, because my son was having some difficulty locating a troop in which he would happy, and because his official membership lapsed during my surgery/recovery period (I didn't want him working on advancement while he was officially not a Scout). However, it was never considered to be the permanent solution, only a temporary situation until a permanent home could be located or developed.

[ozemu]

mk 9750, fair enough. I was worst casing the problem.

 

 

 

Rereading momandscouts original post there are two possibilities she was considering.

 

1 - starting a homeschool troop

 

2 - being a lone scout but attending one or more local Troop's

 

No.2 has some advantages but most replies have concentrated on the social benefits of having peer interaction. In my experience this interaction really only shows results after several days (eg summer camp) or after many weeks (local Troop meetings). If the boy bounces around Troops too much this peer benefit may be missed.

 

 

We seem to agree that lone scouting has drawbacks. So the following are suggestions for remaining in the local Troop. (Not being BSA I may be 'off' and ask that one of you comment on these suggestions)

 

 

 

If attendance and progression is the crux can't these things be organised with the local SM? The Troop program could be followed (in terms of training) by the scout studying what was missed. A homeschooler should do this standing on his head. As he becomes more senior it could probably be arranged that he organises activities while absent and presents them at pre-arranged meetings.

 

 

 

An issue was the more rapid advancement of the scout due to the homeschool use of scout program. She suggested a 'break' on his advancement by doing extra's. I would consider this to be her son's privilage to pursue with the oversight of the SM or delegated ASM. Is this correct?

 

Also there is the possibility of OA activities if he is selected. This could slow things down by giving him more to do. I'm sure there are other 'out of Troop' experiences that can provide more activities to even out the advancement.

 

All this would use the local Troop (with all the benefits) and provide the challenge and extension needed by the individual scout.

 

 

 

 

[Venturer2002]

I've been a member of a sick troop, and wish that I wasn't. The problem with not starting a new troop in your community is you'll effectively cut off the other boys in your area by ignoring the problem at hand: the need for a new Troop.

 

Start a new Troop, and in a few years you'll get bunches of kids, and you'll be doing one of the best "good turns" you can for both your son and your community.

 

instead of ignoring the problem, attack it. And furthermore, your district officials are totally correct in steering you clear of lone scouting when there is no need to. Just because your son CAN be a loner doesn't mean he SHOULD...the patrol system doesn't function with one kid and his momma.