May not be trained or Refuses training

[Basementdweller]

A question about training.

 

Our current pack does not have any records of adult training. I know the answers but I am looking for guidance to back my argument to assign someone to track it.

 

What recourse is there for adults who refuse to complete or update YP or Position specific training?

 

 

[Nike]

"Why track this?" Because earning Quality Unit now requires that certain adults be trained for certain positions. Plus, YP training helps fend off lawsuits and nagging DEs.

 

"I don't wanna..." Well, those are the requirements for this position. You won't be able to do X unless you are trained, and since you are refusing to be trained then I am going to have to appoint a replacement.

 

I think you have to adjust your spiel to the individual. Some people respond to "Do it or you lose your position," and others are better wheedled or guilted into stuff.(This message has been edited by Nike)

[shortridge]

Ask what their line of work is. Then ask if they refuse to take training as a teacher / plumber / electrician / secretary / mechanic / computer programmer. How can they do their job without a certain amount of education and training?

 

There's really no good reason for someone to refuse YP training. A monkey with half a brain can sit down at a computer and do it in a matter of minutes.

[ScoutNut]

There is really no good reason not to take YP training. It is online so that it can be taken at any time from the comfort of your own home, or on your lunch break at work. Even if you do not have an internet connection, you can easily get online at your local library.

 

If they have not taken Position Specific this year for their current position, it might be a bit more dicey. Many councils only offer it in a very limited window. They might not be able to take it until Spring at this point.

 

Personally, I feel that being a trained leader is VERY important. Especially if you are brand new.

 

Having your Pack keep track of training is important on several fronts. Someone mentioned Quality Unit. Another reason to start tracking training is that BSA is moving to make training mandatory in the next year or two. Knowing, as we all do, how wonderfully accurate our Council's training records are, it will be VERY important for units to track their leaders training and keep their own records.

 

With the changes in the Cub Scout program next year, BSA is also supposed to be putting Cub Scout Position Specific training online as well. That will, hopefully, help get more leaders trained.

 

Your CO/CC can make being trained for your position a mandatory requirement for the unit accepting your adult application.

 

[evmori]

Don't recharter them!

[nldscout]

Yep and we lose 40% of the units because the leaders leave.

[Eagle92]

Use your resources. Talk about the ease of training, i.e. via online. Word is that national will be puttin all the of the specif leader training online in the very near future. if possible, set up a pack training event with training staff. Talk about how the kids need them, and with the upcoming mandatory training policy in the near future, you would hate to lose them b/c they do make a difference.

 

 

[BrentAllen]

BSA's focus should be quality over quantity.

 

Tell leaders they have to be trained to go on outings.

 

Be sure to recognize and thank the leaders who do complete the training.

[frank10]

We play Good Scouter, Bad Scouter. Most times I as Chairman play Bad Scouter and allow the SM to play Good Scouter. He gets to say things like "The CC won't allow us to go there if we don't have all the adults trained in YP." or "Could you just do it to keep the CC of my back, you know how he is."

[jr56]

This may become a mute point in a few years when training is nationally required for registration.

[ASM59]

Hello,

 

We have an "Advancement Chairperson" on our Committee who tracks the Adult Training as well as the boys' advancement. I noticed this year that on our re-charter paperwork from Council, that the current training level of all the adults is noted. I don't know if that is normal, or maybe something new this year. At any rate if the adults who have been trained did so in your local council, there should be a record of it at the Council office. This might be a good place to start to help you put together a list for your own unit level tracking of adult training.

 

Most people (including in our Troop) are resistant to putting in the time for training, but are willing to get it done for the good of the Unit and the program. I have found that since the YP training is on the Internet, that it is even easier. A simple e-mail with a link to the training site is all it takes to get most of them trained. Those who are not so Internet savy are invited over for coffee and are helped through the training; not given the answers to the test, but shown how to navigate the site.

 

Offering to show some how to use the training site has helped eliminate the last hold-outs. We have everyone (Committee, Scoutmaster, and Assistant Scoutmasters) at least YP trained. Almost 80% of our 19 registered adults are trained also for their positions. The few that are not trained for their positions are great volunteers, but cannot take the time from their families and/or jobs to complete the Scoutmaster specific portions of the training. If training becomes a requirement, we will lose these adults as registered volunteers.

 

ASM59

[HICO_Eagle]

"BSA's focus should be quality over quantity."

 

I agree with the general intent but the problem with it is you're assuming the BSA training actually increases quality. I contend a lot of the new training may NOT and I don't think it's in BSA's long term interest to drive potential leaders away. I am all for continuing to offer optional training and a few mandatory courses like YPT but would rather evaluate an individual's need for most of the courses and encourage them to take it if applicable. It seems to me BSA is being taken over by professional educators who confuse checking a box with actually improving the product (Scout leaders).

[Lisabob]

"It seems to me BSA is being taken over by professional educators who confuse checking a box with actually improving the product (Scout leaders). "

 

Generally speaking, I understand your point, and I've sat through some lousy trainings, myself. So I can sympathize. But I feel compelled to note that most professional educators wouldn't commit the error you describe; on the other hand, people who assume that teaching is a breeze, who have no background in teaching, might.

 

To the broader question, I guess my answer would be that I'm very sorry to hear Mr. Smith can't take the time to get trained as per BSA (or troop, or CO) requirements, and I hope he'll contact us again when he is in a better position to serve as a unit leader. In the meantime, has he considered serving in some other capacity?

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Thx for all the replys.

 

My post is the result of my efforts to turn in my training records to the pack we just joined.

 

I tried to submit them to the pack secretary who told me to give them to the CM

The CM told me to give them to the Secretary who told me to try the CC

The CC told me to give them to the Secretary who told me forget it, it doesn't really matter.

 

I started asking the DL's about training, some had little others had none.

 

I am going to suggest that we do youth protection at one of the committee meetings and I will volunteer to track and arrange the training.

 

 

So how would you react to a new member of your Pack leadership pushing for something like that???

 

[Eagle92]

As someone else mentioned, mandatory training is on our way. One of the consequences for not getting trained within the year is removal from the charter. And yes it will happen. When national said that long term scouters must submit a form granting a background check or be removed, those scouters who didn't WERE REMOVED. Yep there was some complaining in my neck of the woods buy some leaders who didn't submit the paperwork, but we handled it with a new leader app.

 

As for training records, they suppose , and I stress SUPPOSE, to be transportable from one council to another via SCOUTNET. BUT if one council didn't put the records in, they won't be there. Happened to me several times, like 5 times in 7 years.