HELP!!!!

[browneyedgirl]

I am a first year den leader. I am a bear leader with 7 VERY energetic boys that I can not get to sit down!!! My husband, my assistant leader, and myself have tried everything to calm these young men down. Their attention spand appearently is about 7 seconds!! The parents never stay. I really think that I can see smoke as they gun the engine of their vehicles as they dump their children off. The parents have complained that the day that we had scheduled meetings was not a good day for a couple of boys. We changed the meeting to accomidate the two parents, and now they don't even stick around!!!!! I'm getting frustrated!!! HELP!!!

[NativeTexan]

Check the "Cub Scout" forum on this board. There is a thread that is discussing this very issue. Good luck. Here is the thread url:

 

http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=20583

[SR540Beaver]

I'll get hit over the head by some people here for saying this, but here goes. I am not a cub leader....yet. I have been thinking about it. The main reason is because our den leader does not control the den. It is a Webelos den of 15 boys. For whatever reason, the Cub Master and Den Leader do not want to split it into two seperate dens right now and instead split the boys into 2 or 3 groups during the meeting and send them to different rooms to work on projects in an attempt to gain some control. This still does not work, they wander from room to room when they are not supposed to. Most of the parents are there and do nothing unless asked, me included. I think they do nothing because they don't want to be perceived as trying to take control and out of respect for the person who is supposed to be leading. I don't think the Den Leader will do what needs to be done because the parents ARE there and she is afraid of making a parent angry by doing what she might need to do to gain control. Which leads me to what I believe needs to be done. My son played baseball for 4 years from the age of 5 thru 8. His teams were competitvie teams, meaning they played to win. In order to win, they had to learn to pay attention to the coaches in order to learn how to play well enough to win. How did we get kids from age 5 to 8 to pay attention? We yelled at them. Not in a demeaning way. Not in a way to hurt their feelings. We yelled at them enough to be heard over their own roar to get their attention and to let them know that we meant business. Once they knew the limits, they began to respect them and rose to the expectations we had set. The better they behaved, the less we had to yell. We actually functioned as a team because everyone knew their job and what was expected of them. The coaches and the boys had a great relationship and the boys had a blast playing ball, playing it well, and winning. I think that Cubs too often takes a very casual soft approach with the boys and say that they are "just" kids and the idea is to have "fun". Would you let your kid act at home the way the kids act in the den? Of course not! They can have discipline and still have loads of "fun". They have to know what the limits of rowdiness are. You might have to be "mean" at first. But once they know that they have to behave and that they are going to be called on the carpet for acting out, they will usually settle down. In other words, you have to get your bluff in on them. I would take advantage of the parents NOT being there to lay the law down to the boys. Tell me this, if you don't do something to gain control and let them know who is in charge, do you really think they will decide to settle down on their own? Yes, they might grow out of it........when they are teenagers! But if no one ever sits on them and makes them behave, they will probably act just as bad when the are older.

[sctmom]

First have the boys make a list of den rules. Then tell them this is the way it is --- you will behave.

 

Children are like wild animals in sensing fear and weaknesses.

 

Where do you meet? Are their distractions? Is the room too big or too small? Is there mold? One room available to my den is downstairs in an old house owned by the church. The mold can set off allergies that result in HYPER!

 

Keep their hands busy. I've seen some den leaders expect the boys to sit with their books open. Wrong! They should be busy, busy, busy. What kind of activities are you doing? Alternate quiet with noisy.

 

Do not stand up above the boys. Get down on their eye level.

 

Use the quiet sign. If it means you stand there for 5 minutes, so be it. If the project isn't finished or there is no time for games, oh well.

 

Put your foot down. Make it clear bad behavior will NOT be tolerated. Explain that to the parents. If you decide to have the parents stay at the meetings, tell them they have to help and they have to control their son. BSA is not Baby Sitters of America.

 

 

[mk9750]

Boy, brings back some fond memories!

I think there are three great ideas for keeping young boys under control:

1) As suggested above, have the boys set the den rules. They might not behave like they know they should now, but they do know what constitutes good behavior. I'll bet that the rules they set down, and even more so the consequences they prescribe, will be tougher than you want them to be.

2) Use the first trick I learned in den leader training - A good behavior candle. Light it at the beginning of the meeting in a rather solemn ceremony, and have the person whose behavior does not conform to the rules the boys set blow it out. If that boy misbehaves again, get the parents to take him home. And I let everyone know that snacks were only going to happen if the candle was still burning at snack time. Gaurantee is a strong word, but I'd almost be willing to guarantee things will settle down.

3) For every meeting possible, allow them one small oppurtunity to be a little wild. Plan a game, especially one outside if possible. Even when that wasn't possible, like when I had to have a meeting at my home in the winter, I warned my family that about 15 minutes before the end of the meeting, I was going to allow the boys to scream as loud as they wanted for 5 minutes. That way, I controlled the when and the what, and believe it our not, they quieted down themselves way before the five minutes was up. But a better idea is to plan an active constructive game.

I think that if you tried some or all of these, plus ideas that other very smart folks on these forums offer, you'll be glad you did!

Good luck!

Mark

[frankj]

Have you tried to structure the meeting with a definite opening like a flag ceremony and one again at closing. When I was den leader for Tigers thru Webelos 2, we also had 7 boys. What worked for me was structure -- meaning a time for more or less quiet work on projects, some time for running and yelling and time for a snack at the end. Good Luck.

[LauraT7]

Plan for some activity time to burn steam - and work out a regular schedule or plan for the meetings.

 

Teach them "sign up, mouth shut" and NOTHING happens until they recognize that signal. No games, no projects, no fun. AND STICK TO IT.

 

Set strict guidelines and Stick to them! My biggest problem was with my own son, who is ADHD. To complicate things, we met in my basement - to Jon - it was like having a roomful of wild buddies over! Jon had the "3 step plan" - every warning I had to give him got him 3 steps closer to going upstairs (12 stairs)and staying with Grandma! this applied to ALL the boys. if they went up with Grandma - they had to sit at the kitchen table and read their handboook - particularly the promise, motto, or whatever we were working on. kind of a "time out"

 

Meeting in my basement had advantages, though - I could BE PREPARED - have the activities, crafts, games etc laid out, visible and ready to go - if they come in and get right into an activity - they don't even START goofing off - they are too involved in what YOU'VE planned! Make sure each boy is directed to an appropriate activity or otherwise occupied as they are coming in - that way you don't lose control from the begining.

 

Cub scouts is a family activity - Get your parents trained RIGHT NOW to participate.

 

Those of us who volunteer to lead scouts are a strange breed to those who DON't volunteer. They are all afraid of getting roped in to the unknown. Ask for small, specific helps, and build up. Believe me - this will really pay off as your den grows.

 

Start by calling them or meeting with them one on one and finding out what usefull skills they have that you can use. Be imaginative and open. Tell them that you don't expect them to lead (unless they really WANT TO!) but you DO expect their help in whatever form they can give. Make it clear the boys get more out of scouting if their parents participate and support them. Ask 1 or 2 specific parents to stay and help at each meeting - rotate so that it isn't too much a burden on any family.

 

Maybe a mom or two can help you with specific craft projects. Maybe a dad has a workshop or tools he can show the boys how to use. Perhaps someones job might make a good tour or activity, or they have an interesting hobby to share.

 

(I had one set of parents that worked evening shift at the hospital, and could never make meetings - but they took us on tours of the hospital, blood lab and x-ray areas, drove on trips, and did other things)

 

Get to know your boys - my guess is that there are a few who are interested in settling down,at least sometimes! but that there are a few wild ones egging the others on. identify those boys and occupy them with other tasks. Give those "leaders" specific jobs that make them feel important - and let them know that acting up will lose them that job! if they have specific habits or problems, ask their parents for specific help - what works for Mom and Dad?

 

Sometimes I wish my son were Cub age again - we had LOTS of fun!

 

 

 

[LauraT7]

to kwc57

 

15 boys is too many - divide and conquer!

 

They can still do major activities together if you want - but for meetings they should be a smaller group.

 

Besides, this is where they should start getting the idea of working together in small groups - the "patrol method" used in boys scouts. many areas keep a den togther as a "new scout patrol" when they move into boys scouts. the ideal patrol is 8 boys.(give or take)

 

It naturally divides them for games, camping, chores, competitions - and it gives each cub more individual attention.

 

I wouldn't resort to yelling, though - it wears you out and doesn't gain you much respect. Teach them the hand signal NOW and stick to it - it DOES work! Consistency is the key!