Woodbadge and the 21st Century Woodbadge

[Tflytyer]

I enjoyed my time taking Woodbadge in 1974. I completed my ticket, serviced the LHAC Shoreline Dist as a Cub Scout Dist Commissioner, and on the training committee. In 1981 was asked to serve on staff for Woodbadge. Because of the area economy I elected to serve in the US Navy (20 plus yrs)and turned down the invitation as staff member (reported to Basic Training 3 days after the week long course started). Now that I'm out of the Navy and back working in a local community, I rejoined the local district staff as a Unit Commissioner, and now I'm the District Commissioner, serviced on the council NYLT training staff. I have completed all the new training courses except the 21st Century Woodbadge.

I know that the Woodbadge course material has changed over the years; to keep up with the new teachings and ideas.

What I don't understand why I'm not allowed to earn my third bead. I can service on all the Woodbadge courses I want, as well as the NYLT courses but because I don't have the "NEW" Woodbadge course I cannot earn the next bead. Can anyone explain this???

 

[Eagle92]

First welcome to the virtual campfire, Second glad to have you back, and third, thank you for your service. Now in reference to WB21C, the course is radically different than WB, or so I'm told. I admit I've not done either courses at this time. I've been told that unless you staffed during the transitional period, the only way to serve on staff now is to start all over as a participant. Don't know who mad ethat policy, tbut that is what I'm told.

[Tflytyer]

Then I think national should step up to the plate and create a course that will bridge this training deficiency the training courses. You left alot of adult leaders out here with little options, and I understand that all the new courses are first filled by those leaders that have not taken the course previously. Leaving little chance for those of us that took the early course. Why penalize us for wanting to take the training when we had the chance.

[Eamonn]

Not sure how good an example this might be.

But....

I grew up in London, England.

Back in the days when we Pounds and shillings.

There was twenty shillings to the Pound and twelve Penny's to the Shilling.

On 15 February 1971, the UK decimalised, replacing the shilling and penny with a single subdivision, the new penny. The word "new" was omitted from coins after 1981.

The pound was still a pound, but no longer had 240 Penny's in it.

I was working after school in a hardware store on the Kings Road, Chelsea when the change came.

For a while everyone wanted to know what things cost in the "Old" money? Was 1.50 really 1-10/-?

Of course in time everyone got used to the new money and there are a lot of people today who have no idea what the old money was and I'll bet most of these people really are never going to lose any sleep thinking about the old money.

The old course is gone.

It is never coming back.

The new course, while it has kept the name "Wood Badge" is nothing like the old course.

In fact the new course really isn't that new. Soon it will have been with us for ten years.

The 17 year old who was a Boy Scout when it first came out, is now married and his son is a Tiger Cub.

Just like the pre-decimal currency we had in the UK when I was a Lad, the best thing we can do is move on.

In time fewer and fewer of us old timers who took the old course will be around and the younger guys and girls really are not going to want to hear us harp on about the "Good Old Days."

Teachers in the UK today when they are teaching younger kids about handling coins and cash, don't mention the old money. I'll bet most of todays teachers never even seen a farthing!

Trying to staff a new course without ever having participated in it?

Is probably not a very good idea.

Eamonn.

 

 

[Lisabob]

Hello, and welcome.

 

I would recommend you talk with a fellow named David Harrison in your council. He's a great resource for LHAC folks, and a nice guy, too.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

BSA feels (and rightly so in my opinion) that you can not teach/staff a course if you have no idea what that course is about. BSA has decided that the best way to learn about a course is to actually take it.

 

"New" Wood Badge is entirely different from "Old" Wood Badge.

 

You are not being persecuted, or penalized. Take the new course. You will learn a lot of new things.

 

 

[Tflytyer]

First question is how many out there have taken both the old and new course? Again I'll state that when registering for a Woodbadge course, the councils will normally take all persons that have not taken Woodbadge in the past and will add them only if they are not enough to fill a course, greatly reducing the chance to take the course a 2nd time. Why should I have to pay twice for the privilege of earning my beads a 2nd time?

I no longer associated with LHAC, I'm now work down south in another district in the same state. Think you for Dave's name, I may look him up.

[eghiglie]

The new course was great! Learned a lot.

 

The old timers make fun of us newbies because we never took the old course where they had to hike uphill 10 miles each day in the snow with a 50 pound pack. Even in the South.

 

I learned a lot about leadership that I use in my job.

 

[TAHAWK]

Tflytyer, thank you for staffing NYLT. There is often a problem getting adults to staff a week-long course.

 

"I enjoyed my time taking Woodbadge in 1974."

 

That would have been called "the new course" in 1974.

 

"I think national should step up to the plate and create a course that will bridge this training deficiency the training courses."

 

Not being flip at all. The course that covers the material not covered in the second WB course is the third version of Wood Badge, Wood Badge for the 21st Century.

 

"You left alot of adult leaders out here with little options, and I understand that all the new courses are first filled by those leaders that have not taken the course previously. Leaving little chance for those of us that took the early course."

 

In our area, there are more openings than there are Scouters to fill them. Few courses have all eight Patrols. Have you checked courses in neighboring Councils? In Ohio, two courses were cancelled for lack of the minimum number or "participants." The "minimum" would still leave eighteen openings.

 

"First question is how many out there have taken both the old and new course?"

 

Many in my Council. My Owl Patrol last year had four retreads out of five members. (And I was a Trooop Guide this year.)

 

"Why should I have to pay twice for the privilege of earning my beads a 2nd time?"

 

It's been said. It makes sense that you should have taken a course if you want to teach it. These are very different courses in some respects.

 

 

[Eamonn]

When the WB21C came along there as a period of time when those who had taken the older course were discouraged from attending the course.

I seem to remember that when the course was opened for people who had taken the older course that they were treated the same as the other participants.

I didn't see this as being a big deal.

Back when I was a participant on the old Cub Scout course I was asked not to wear my beads or regalia from the Boy Scout courses I had participated in.

You might say that I "Lucked Out"!

I had staffed a good many courses when the new course came along (Both Boy Scout and Cub Scout). I was told that I did have to staff a new course as a Guide before I was allowed to be a CD for the new course.

I did and am very glad that I did.

But again this wasn't a big deal, as I had also had to participate in the Cub Scout course, before I was able to staff that course.

We have in our cluster canceled courses because there haven't been enough people sign up.

Eamonn

[ScoutNut]

I do not think we have ever had to turn away folks who wanted to take Wood Badge.

 

On the other hand, we have canceled the course (at least once that I know of) because not enough people have registered.

 

Look at neighboring councils. I am sure if you try, you can find a Wood Badge to attend.

[Lisabob]

Well if you're "down south" in MI you are quite possibly in my general neck of the woods. I can tell you it is pretty rare for WB courses to fill 8 full patrols in our WB cluster, and you aren't likely going to be turned away for lack of space.

 

So the real issues are: cost and attitude.

 

I agree, it is sort of a bummer that you'd have to pay to re-take the course, but as you know, there's no such thing as a free lunch. The course costs money to put on. Many councils offer WB scholarships. I know mine will pay about half the cost (about $100) for scholarship recipients, making it much more affordable.

 

By attitude, I mean two things - first, "I took it before, my beads should be good!" And to that, I say, they are good. Nobody is asking you to turn in your beads at the door, though I am told that prior Wood Badgers are sometimes asked to set aside their beads temporarily, while participating in the new course. I've heard various explanations for this (avoid intimidating other participants, a sign of open-ness to new ideas and learning, etc.). Personally I don't see it as a deal breaker, but then I only have one set of beads. THe second thing I mean by attitude is, "there's nothing new for me to learn." To which my answer is, there is always something new to learn, or something that you'd forgotten about and could benefit from a refresher.

 

And to be honest, as a participant, I had a bunch of staffers who had NOT taken the new course. (This was back in 2003 when it was still feasible to staff without taking it.) I think it would have been a far better experience, had they gone through the course first. Not only would that have suggested to me - a first time participant - that they respected the students in the course enough to experience it for themselves, but also there would have been a lot less of the "back in the day..." stuff which served no purpose for those of us who were not Scouters back in the day and wanted current instruction rather than 30 year old war stories.

 

I hope this doesn't come across as harsh because it isn't meant as such. But I think there are good reasons for expecting staffers to take the course first. I think many of the objections people raise are often minor and easily surmountable. And I think the best teachers are people who are willing to be life-long learners, first and foremost. Current WB participants deserve those sorts of teachers.

 

 

[acco40]

"Old" Wood Badge - (Cub or Boy Scout? I'll assume Boy Scout) - sort of an advanced Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills.

 

"New" Wood Badge - sort of like a corporate training session on team formation, leadership skills, etc.

 

Old Wood Badge is more like IOLS. New Woodbadge is more like an adult version of NYLT.

 

Yes, all the above are gross generalizations. I used to be a Bear ...

 

P.S. Novices type Woodbadge. Pros type Wood Badge.

[TAHAWK]

scco40 posted:

"'Old' Wood Badge - (Cub or Boy Scout? I'll assume Boy Scout) - sort of an advanced Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills.

 

"New" Wood Badge - sort of like a corporate training session on team formation, leadership skills, etc.

 

Old Wood Badge is more like IOLS. New Woodbadge is more like an adult version of NYLT.

 

Yes, all the above are gross generalizations. I used to be a Bear ...

 

P.S. Novices type Woodbadge. Pros type Wood Badge."

 

Actually, the first Wood Badge course was like advanced IOLS - all outdoor skills.

 

Starting in 1972, the second Wood Badge course was a combination of outdoor skills and leadership skills.

 

The third version of Wood Badge, Wood Badge for the 21st Century, focuses on leadership training.

 

NYLT is a junior version of the present Wood Badge, not the other way around.

[John-in-KC]

Welcome to the campfire.

 

As Lisa said, talk to David Harrison. He posts here as well, as I recall, under the moniker dancinfox.

 

Had you come back in the early years of WB21C, there was a grandfather period for staffers. You could come back and staff a course. The expiry of that offer was very clearly set. There was much consternation about it as the date approached.

 

Like it or not, the National Council has the right to make decisions about how it brands the pieces/parts of the Scouting program. They've chosen to require WB21C attendance to staff WB21C.

 

Lisa and I are both WB21C graduates, in separate Councils, in separate courses. I think we both grew for many reasons as a result of our training. Now, was the leadership psych anything new for me? Not really, but I learned relationships, made friends, gained resources ... all of which have served me well as I continue on the Scouting trail.

 

At the end of the day, it's your decision. We can encourage you to go, but you have to decide what's in your own heart.

 

YIS John

I used to be an Owl

C-40-05