Wood Badge Youngsters?

[Eagle92]

Wingnut,

VERY good point.

[mmhardy]

With all due respect, why can 18yo be considered adult enough to wear body armor and protect our country in far off lands while not be considered old enough for a little training in a youth program?

 

Age does not make one an "adult", neither does being a mom or having gray hair.

 

I see evidence here of Keeper of the Flame syndrome. Its evidenced by those who wish to impose restrictions or requirements above and beyond what is established. Its commonly seen in BORs and especially in EBORs.

 

[Eagle92]

Ok I got a little time so I can post a little more. Wing nut and MMHardy are 100% right.

 

As you can guess this is a pet peeve of mine: 18-20 yo scouters (you can even say up to 25, but esp the 18-20 bracket) being discounted because of their age. Doesn't matter if they have the same Scouting KSAs and SCOUTING EXPERIENCE that an older individual, or even if they have MORE Scouting KSAEs than older indiviudals do, because they are "young" they "Don't know that the [heck] (edited for language) you're doing!"

 

Yes I've been screamed and cursed at by older leaders b/c I knew the policy and followed it, and they didn' like it. Best example would be the SM who started yelling at the Election team about a scout he didn't want into the OA AFTER he signed him off on the election form. I was a 21yo chapter advisor who had served on election teams, ceremony teams, and was a member of the Lodge's ECM as a youth, and was given the CA spot when my predecessor went to Pharmacy School. But Because I younger than him and I hadn't been Arrowman for the past 15+ years like him, I didn't know what I was doing. He stated he did have the authority to change the election results.

 

So what if the young MAN hadn't has an "AWWW ^&**" moment yet. So what if he doesn't have the same responsibilities in his personal life that other members of the patrol has. If he can manage taking the course in addition to everything else going on why shouldn't he? Who knows maybe that young man will be better prepared when that moment comes? Maybe he will be better prepared when he does get into the same realm of responsibilities as his patrol peers?

 

Trainerlady,

I am sorry you had a terrible time your first weekend at WB21C. But from what I seen from participant working their tickets, and have heard about the shenanigans that goes on, (and seen some of the shenanigans from my time with BA22 and JLT, the youth equivalents of WB), you should be having fun and acting a bit like a teenager again. Yes it's work, and sometimes dry and boring if you've had it before, but get creative and have some fun.

 

Remember the CS Leader Motto: KISMIF ( Keep It Simple, Make It Fun)(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[John-in-KC]

Eagle92,

 

Having been through Basic myself, Basic is 8 WEEKS of continuous AW-#### moments. Ask Gunny. Ask any other veteran on this board. You ain't lived until your Drill comes into your bay, turns your double rack over, gouges the floor doing so, empties your wall locker, dumps the tray of your footlocker, because Jackson and Smith had their beds not perfect. We cannot replicate that level of pressure and teamwork in Scouting. We're preparing young people for teamwork and pressure approaching that level, be it collegiate football, the military, university level forensics teams, university band, whatever...

 

A mature and responsible adult looks to the 2d and 3d order consequences of his or her actions. Way too many young people these days do not do that. They need mentoring far more than they need to be a mentor.

 

In my years, that 19 year old private soldier? Yes, I'd probably accept him for WB. He's had that AW-#### moment. He understands pressure and teamwork, in a way Scouting never will want to teach. That's all the more so if he's come back from a shooting tour in one of the sandboxes.

[eaglescout1996]

I have to agree with John...at 18 I thought I knew everything and when I went to Basic, I couldn't wrap my head around "mass punishment" from the Drills. Like he said, one guy screws up and EVERYONE's stuff gets dumped in a pile. The ultimate exercise in team work, looking out for each other and making sure everything is squared away.

 

My point was from my personal experience was that, if I had turned 18, magically become an ASM and taken WB, without that outside experience, it would have been just about getting the beads, nothing would have sunk in.

[Melgamatic]

In my WB course we had several 18-20 year old new scout leaders, all reasonably fresh eagles. Two were in my patrol (Beaver!). They both had significantly more scouting experience than I (they probably had 12+ years of scouting experience).

 

I learned a bunch from their scouting experience, hopefully they learned a lot from a more aged/mature/seasoned/tattered guy, and we both did better. I wouldn't want to attend a WB course with all young people, but having them in the mix helps a lot.

 

[eghiglie]

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with a 18yo going to WB, after all lots of 18yo's go into the military, besides getting shot at, they go to school to learn how to be a NCO, with in a few years they are running a small group of soldiers, sailors, airmen or Marines.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I say again... I have no problem with a 19yo Soldier, Sailor, Marine, Coast Guardsman or Airman taking WB. I can guarantee you they've had at least one, and in the current fraci, perhaps many, AW-#### moments.

 

Most young people in the Armed Forces are a distinct minority among American young adults, though..

[theysawyoucomin']

I get a little sick of hearing the "well... you carry a rifle" argument.

 

Less than 1% are ever going to carry a rifle. The argument doesn't hold water and I resent the fact that the other 99% are making an argument off the service of others.

 

Having carried a rifle at 18 and 2 months I don't want my son to do it and he can darn sure wait until he is 21 for a lot of things.

 

 

What billet do these people fill in a pack or Troop? I would think the person would have to be exceptional to do this at less than 25. Are they leading a den of boys, directing a part of a camp. They may have been an ASM for less than a year.

 

I don't think there is a hard and fast number rule but I think a Wood Badger should have SOME time under his/ her belt.

 

AT 18 they graduated from school and in October they took training the next June(or so) prior to WB they would turn 19. The years don't seem to add up.

 

I like what wingnut said.

[jhankins]

We had an 18 yo Venturing young lady on our last course, and while she was a seasoned camp staffer, she had a great time sharing her insight, role in Venturing, and learning from those around her.

 

Just think of the leadership potential this young woman already shows, and just how much she will use the skills from Wood Badge not only with Scouting, but in her college life? If I would have been open and receptive enough to even take Wood Badge at that age, I think more than a few situations would have been resolved for the better.

[ntrog8r]

The purpose of WB as described in the course curriculem:

As a result of attending Wood Badge, participants will be able to

View Scouting globally, as a family of interrelated, values-based programs that provide age-appropriate activities for youth.

Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values-based movement.

Apply the skills they learn from their participation as a member of a successful working team.

Revitalize their commitment by sharing in an overall inspirational experience that helps provide Scouting with the leadership it needs to accomplish its mission on an ongoing basis.

 

Which of these things require an age/experience/AW####/etc limit? Without digressing into whether or not current WB is on the right track, I'm wondering which of these purposes/objectives of the curriculem can not be met based on youth/inexperience. After all, these folks are ALREADY Scout leaders right? They are ALREADY teaching, coaching, mentoring, influencing Scouts at all ages whether they go through WB or not. WB only achieves the above purposes, it is not a prerequisite for serving the BSA as a registered Scouter.

[Eagle92]

Uz,

What experience can a 18-20YO scouter have?

 

Well I didn't have much as an 18-20, just being an ASPL for 3 years prior to becomeing an adult and attending BA22, oh and my first 50 miler all while a youth. As an 18-20 YO, I did my second 50 miler, served as an ASM, served as SPL for JLT, served on the Lodge Executive Board as AIA chair which including organizing my lodges dance and ceremony teams for both Conclave and NOAC competition. As for the 21-25 year period, I continued to serve as an ASM, was a chapter adviser, also served as Lodge AIA adviser, did summer camp for 3 years, and oh yeah I was a DE.

 

As for my 18yo friend, he served on summercamp staff for 3 years, two of which was aquatics, was SPL for his troop, attended the NYLT course at Philmont (the youth staff training course for JLT), in addition top his 50 miler there, and was on the Lodge Executive Board. Oh forgot he was also an ASM.

 

Wise group once sang, " Never judge a book by its cover."

[SR540Beaver]

Just got official word of syllabus changes for 2010.

 

"Participants 18 years old and older may attend Wood Badge regardless of their registered position (18 20 year old Venturing Youth may attend)."

[Eagle92]

I like the change, didn't make sense that someone registered as an ASM at 18-20 could take the course, but someone else registered as a Venturer inthe same age bracket could not.

 

Now my question is this; What do you now do for those Venturers who have staffed WB as a youth? My council did have Venturers staff either part or all of WB.

[SR540Beaver]

E92,

 

Depends on what you mean by staffed. In order to staff WB, you have to have attended a WB21C course and earned your beads, asked to be on staff and attended staff development. Venturing Youth can be asked to assist with the Venturing portion of the course, but that isn't official "staff".

 

Whether it makes sense or not, I'm not sure where I fall on that. WB has been adult leader training and while yes, a person 18 or older can register as an adult, a person registered as a youth in Venturing is a different animal. A minor technicality? Possibly, but there is a difference. An adult can bunk with an 18 year old registered as an adult, but can't with an 18 year old OA "youth" or a Venturer.