mandatory training is coming our way

[eghiglie]

In a way this has already occured. When I go to RT every month about 75% of the folks have their 2 beads from woodbadge.

 

I loved woodbadge and learned a lot so this is great idea.

[BadenP]

Look this topic comes up every few years, and as early as 20 years ago, and nothing has happened yet so don't sweat it. National would never and could never afford to lose more than 50% of their units for noncompliance, the whole program would fold up like a tent. As far as those online trainings, a good PR move on Nationals part but the quality and retention is a joke. You can skip the entire YPT presentation to the end, take the test, pass it and not learn a darn thing. The same is true for all the other online trainings, at least in a class setting there are verbal exchanges so the instructor knows who and who hasn't got a grasp of the material. So you watch if ever National makes any training mandatory it will be offered online and made easy to become "certified".

[Lisabob]

Baden, I disagree with your assessment. Maybe this is because I have attended many really, truly, awful waste-of-time scout leader trainings, but I'm very skeptical about your assertion that face to face training is better than the online training. It **COULD** be better, but that's just not what I see on the ground. What I see is a bunch of people with no experience as trainers or organizers, who themselves haven't taken the time to look through the material and think carefully about how to present it, who don't even know a national syllabus exists, whose idea of using the training aids (powerpoint) is to read them verbatim to the captive audience, who then "shoot from the hip" telling endless stories about how "they" do it, more than half of which is directly contradictory to BSA material. And heaven help you if you expect answers to questions or serious discussion of how to deal with difficult issues. I have usually found these trainings to be an insult to the intelligence of the participants, and a huge waste of time.

 

At least with the online training there is some standardization. Everybody gets the same material. And people can go back to it a week, a month, a year from now to refresh their memories if a situation comes up.

 

The online stuff has flaws, but I think it is a pretty good place to start for most adults.

[Hal_Crawford]

Lisa:

I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with training. I feel that I have been fortunate to have excellent trainers who presented the material well and only used war stories where they helped make a point and were consistent with the syllabus.

 

When I took SM specific training the trainer made a point with a photo from his first camp out as SM. It was of him standing in front of his scouts and he was clearly holding forth on some important issue. He said that after the campout he saw the photo and it hit him. He was clearly having a great time explaining his agenda to the scouts but you could see from the faces and body language that it was not their agenda. Some were looking at the ground, some were looking away and some were actually looking at him but with blank looks that said "so what?". It was a picture of what adult leadership looks like and I know that for me it drove the point home. Could I have gotten that from an on-line training? Maybe but I doubt it.

 

Sometimes it helps to have the trainer and classmates to point out the errors in the BSA materials. For instance, in one of the courses they showed a video on how to prepare for and conduct a scout meeting. Much of it involved the SM and the SPL. Every time the SM talked to the SPL he put his hand on his shoulder.

 

If this were on-line it might pass unnoticed but in a class several people commented and it lead to a discussion of how YP issues can sneak up on you.

 

BTW, has anyone noticed that in the This is Scouting class there is a slide showing patches from various high adventure programs like Philmont, Sea Base and Tote n' Chip? I doubt that there has ever been a text book or piece of instructional material that didn't have some error in it somewhere.

 

I have also found it difficult to ask my computer to answer questions no matter how loud I yell them.

 

Finally, I don't see how IOLS could be taught outdoors. Some online is fine but I favor a mix.

 

Hal

 

 

[BadenP]

Lisa

I have to agree with Hal, for me these online trainings leave a whole lot to be desired. Maybe you should talk to your council training committee if your trainings have been so bad about improving the quality, sounds like a Train the Trainer class is in order. Truth of the matter is that most scout training, except for Philmont Training Center, live or online are insufficent in delivery or information to deal with the needs and demands of being todays scout leaders. However I will never see the logic in online over in person training for scout training since so much of it is hands on, except for the fact it probably makes the councils trained leader stats look better.

[Colorado_Penguin]

I just received an email from our Council that come 2010, mandatory training is required before ANY youth contact.

 

As a fairly new Cub Scout Parent/Den Leader (This will be my third year), I was motivated enough to go get trained and actually had YPT done before me and my son was even signed up for Cub Scouts. However, some of our adult leaders just have YPT. My ADL is a good example. I have a den of 6 maybe 8 this year. I lost two because the kids are getting into other activities, and their families can't make the commitment. And my other families are just as busy.

 

We just did our recuiting this week, and it looks like we may have 4 TC & 2 new Wolves. So, can someone explain to me how that TC Den is going to meet if we have that mandatory training issue?

 

It's all great to require training and put a deadline when you are getting paid and it's your job. But I'm pretty sure most folks here are volunteers. It's hard enough to get parents to help with normal pack/den activities. And if you are lucky to get someone to want to be a Den Leader, or Committee person, you now say... oh... take some of your free time and get trained.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that getting trained is not a bad thing. But, BSA is putting another barrier up for some packs/troops and adding more commitment to the adult leadership folks might be enough that some drop and packs/troops drop. And the worst part is, the boys are losing out.

 

Just my .02

[Hal_Crawford]

I guess it depends on what level of training is required before having contact with scouts. If the requirement is to be fully trained then that would be a serious problem. If what they mean is YPT that is a different story. Even if the requirement were to complete YPT, This is

Scouting and the appropriate Fast Start it is still something that could be done online in an evening.

 

Hal

[Hal_Crawford]

I found this on the BSA site (http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx):

 

"Cub Scout Leader Fast Start Training

 

Prior to running your first den or pack meeting, Cub Scout Leader Fast Start is the initial training course required for you to complete so that you may understand the fundamentals of the Cub Scouting program. There are separate fast start training courses for all Cub Scout leaders, catered to specific leadership roles in the pack. You will learn your specific responsibilities, how to keep your meetings fun and exciting, and what other resources there are to help assist you in planning for your den or pack meetings. This training is offered online or on a DVD. Estimated time to complete: 45 minutes."

 

Apparently it is already required. Same requirement is shown for Boy Scout Fast Start. I guess they are going to start enforcing it now.

 

Hal

[ntrog8r]

First let me say I too have suffered through some pretty bad training sessions - and not just limited to Scouting. For those that haven't, congratulations to your Councils and Districts on a job perfectly done.

 

I do believe that in-person training is the best, after all isn't that what we do in Scouting? I also think online training is valuable, available, and consistent. As a baseline to provide the basics, common vocabulary, etc it is a very useful training tool.

 

For those wondering about whether or not training will be required, just check the BSA website: http://www.scouting.org/Training/TrainingUpdates.aspx

 

An excerpt from the update:

Twenty selected councils will pilot required training for top leaders in 2010. Top leaders are Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, Varsity Coaches, and Venturing crew Advisors. Plans are to require training for all top leaders in 2011 and all direct-contact leaders in 2012. Direct-contact leaders include assistant leaders and den leaders. Council training teams should begin to update training records by conducting training inventories of their leaders and prepare to make training more readily available and to expand their training teams.