Advance Outdoor Leadership Training Anyone?

[Eagle92]

Ok this is a spin off thread, adn also related to the GernBadge thread.

 

Does the BSA need an Advanced Outdoor Leadership Training (AOLS) to teach advanced outdoor skills and topics not taught at IOLS?

 

WB once did this, but no longer. Does POWDERHORN do this? Or does a new training need to be created?

 

Also what format woudl you use: weekend courses, modular courses that could be done at a UoS? What about RT presentations?

 

The Gernbadge idea was a good one. Come on folks with all the experience we have here, soemhting can be done?

 

Or maybe, we can go back to GBB?

 

Only thing I request is NO DISCOUNTING WB21C. This is to be an additional training opportunity.

[emb021]

Having gone thru the prior WB (Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge), to claim it was an "Advanced Outdoor Leadership Training" would be off. It was never about teaching advanced outdoor skills. They covered outdoor skills, but I don't think I'd call it advanced. I think pretty much all of the outdoor skills I got in WB could be covered in OLS.

 

Powder Horn, by the way, is a high adventure RESOURCE course. Its NOT intended to train people to be outdoor experts. So trying to claim its a "AOLS" course or trying to turn it into that would be incorrect.

 

 

Now, back in the early 90s, BSA issue a set of Outdoor Skills Instruction booklets that could be used as the basis of a weekend "AOLS" course:

Aquatics #33026

Backpacking #33035

Camping #33035

Cooking #33467

Rappelling/Rock Climbing #33027

Survival #33029

Team Building #33004

 

Are these still available? Could not a local council do fine putting together their own AOLS course? My home council is doing that to a degree as part of thier University of Scouting event.

 

[Eagle92]

Emb,

Thanks for the info on the old WB course and Powderhorn. the Old WB course was advertised as such where I grew up, so that is how I wrote it. Also Haven't taken Powderhorn, so I cannot comment on it, that's why I asked.

 

I remember those pamphlets, and that they were not much of a seller in the Scout Shop I worked at. If memory serves, and you know what happens when you get old, they weren't really "advanced" courses, but truly more detailed lesson plans to teach the basics than the Woods Wisdom book, now called Troop Program Features vols. 1-3 and Troop Resource Book.

 

Now I have to try and find my Rappelling/Rock Climbing and Team Building books as they were part of the COPE book at NCS. I could be wrong about the books, they may have seem basic to me as I was in a "hiking and camping troop."

[Buffalo Skipper]

I consider Powerhorn a great course. But the skills it teaches are not true outdoor skills. Look at the Ranger requirements, specifically the core and elective requirements. Powderhorn takes this list and turns each requirement into a 1-3 hour experience (over 6 days total), and exposes you to what each reqirement is and how to bring this type of activity to your unit (Crew or Troop) by using outside experts called consultants. It does not teach these skills to the leaders. Though the award is a Venturing level recognition, the elements are generally applicable to a troop program. You can learn quite a lot in this course, but you will not learn to master these skills.

 

I think an AOLS would be a great course to implement in a district or council. BSA required? No, definately a "Supplemental" training. And even though I am pro-training (and I do like the idea of this course), I think it would be too much for most leaders to be expected to participate in a program like this.

 

Ideally, it may include things like alternate methods of fire starting, backpacking and canoing, cooking without stoves, and similar activities. Possibly done in a round-robin format. I can many interesting and fun things which can be added to this program done in a whole weekend, Friday night through Sunday afternoon.

 

Interesting.

[gcnphkr]

As far as the additional training opportunity, there is the Philmont Leadership Challenge(http://www.philmontleadershipchallenge.org/index.html).

The thing with scoutcraft is that there are not things that are mastered in a class. They have to be practiced. Learning the skills doesn't take much more than IOLS and taking your Boy Handbook or Fieldbook with you when camping and putting them to use. I suspect that anything more than a weekend devoted to learning these skills would get very tedious, or else would need be based on the assumption that you know how to do things but that you may not be proficient in them. Learning how to tie a square lashing takes about 10 minutes, being able to try it well requires building a tower and have it collapse a couple of times because you didn't get the lashings tight enough, or you used diagonal lashings where you should have used square. So a week of putting things to use would be fun, a week of learning to do them would not.(This message has been edited by jet526)

[emb021]

I took BSLWB back in 1988. It was never advertised as an advanced outdoor course, but the advanced scout leader training course.

 

I took Powder Horn and have gone thru PH CDC. As I noted, its a high adventure resource course. Its promoted as that because we don't want people to think we will turn them into outdoor experts.

 

Someone mentioned the PLC. I've heard that refered to as "NAYLE for adults". Don't know enough about it to see if it could be the AOLS that some want.

 

I DO wish that National (or someone) could develop an AOLS-type course that could be given by councils (or cluster of councils) to met that level of knowledge. As someone else noted, this could be a good supplemental program. Now, for several years there were rumours of a follow-on course to PH called "Flintlock". Some of the rumours seems to make it seem as a sort of AOLS-type of course, or a series of AOLS-type modules. But I saw nothing formal, and with the recent re-org I have no idea where that stands.

 

[shortridge]

Another option could be running a series of workshops or programs at summer camp tailored to adult leaders who want advanced training in specific skills - nature identification, firebuilding, LNT, knots/lashings, cooking, etc.

[Eagle92]

GREAT IDEAS ALL PLEASE KEEP THEM COMING!!!!! (This time I am shouting as I think this discussion is going places )

 

As I said on the original thread, it's kinda funny that this discussionin one form or another has been going in on this site, and on Friday I get a FB post from my SE about mandatory training and how to improve the current training program. So I want some ideas to bring to the training committee and the SE.

 

[eagle77]

Why does everyone say that a training like this (AOLS) would be supplemental? If we boast or brag that we are "the" outdoor program. why shouldn't at least 1 or 2 of the adult leaders (SM & ASM) be trained in this type of training? By making it supplemental it is just another "If I feel like it" type trainings. To me every SM should be required to have training in the outdoors. Lots more then what is offered now. To me that is like saying I can be an electrician and not know anything about electricity. I do know that brings in the old problem of the different ways that councils train there adult leaders. I would rush at the chance to learn even more or just get a review of what I learned as a scout. But I'm sure others would just overlook it as a waste of time. So the problem of having adult leaders who are inept or afraid of the outdoors will still be among us. This is also what helps to chase boys away from the program and scouting. Just think your a young guy and would really like to get outdoors and camp, the only troop in the area has a scoutmaster who is scared as anything or has no idea what to do in the outdoors. Good bye scout or scouts. In some areas this might not be a problem, like mine where you have different troops within just a few miles of each other, but what about other areas where troops aren't as plentiful?

 

[emb021]

"Another option could be running a series of workshops or programs at summer camp tailored to adult leaders who want advanced training in specific skills - nature identification, firebuilding, LNT, knots/lashings, cooking, etc."

 

Actually, what you describe was one of the main descriptions I heard of Flintlock: a series of self-contained 'modules' or workshops on different topics. They could be of different lengths (some may be half a day long, other a full day, others a full weekend). They could be delivered as part of a weekend training course or even as part of a summer camp session (keep in mind that you want flexibility of delivery because of different peoples needs/abilities).

 

The idea was that once someone did a certain number of modules, they would then be recognized with the Flintlock recognition item.

 

"Why does everyone say that a training like this (AOLS) would be supplemental? To me every SM should be required to have training in the outdoors."

 

First off, we don't have required training in the BSA, other then YPT. And as it stands, ALL Boy Scout leaders are required to take IOLS to be considered "basic trained", so we to a degree already required training in the outdoors.

 

You also need to understand that BSA training falls into one of 4 categories:

 

* Fast Start

* Basic

* Supplemental

* Advanced

 

Fast Start is the immediate training, used to be via video now on-line that new leaders take asap to get the basic of their job.

 

Basic training is the set of training we want all leaders to take to be considered "Trained", which entitled them to wear the "Trained" strip, and which is needed to met quality goals for units and councils. This is composed of "This is Scouting", YPT, and whatever position-specific training there is. IOLS is part of that for certain positions.

 

Advanced training is, obviously, the advanced level of training. National considered Wood Badge to be it. Personally I include Powder Horn and Seabadge.

 

Supplemental is everything else. This is your various safety training, skills training, University of Scouting, College of Commissioner Science, Roundtable (yup, its supposed to be on-going supplemental training), the stuff you get at Philmont Training Center, including the PLC, Sea Base Conference center, etc etc.

 

So any such "AOLS" training is probably going to fall into supplemental training.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Rather than reinvent the wheel, perhaps we could partner with NOLS and have them do the training, or at least mentor some adults to do the training

[Eagle92]

I have a few problems with mandatory training, but understand the sentiment, and agree. FYI here are my 2 problems: 1) SCOUTNET is not at this time a reliable databse for maintaining records and 2) You do have older scouters who have these skill already, or younger leaders who grew up in the program and have these skills already who wouldn't see the value of these courses.

 

Can't fix SCOUTNET but I got two ideas for the second problem 1) we can get them on staff, and 2) implement a challenge option to these courses.

 

As for mandatory training in general, it is coming our way. It's being beta tested in a few councils now, and my SE mentioned it on a FB post of his.

 

Someone mentioned summer camp as the place for this, how about evening sessions with the SCOUTCRAFT staff? that way 1) The adults can see what youth and young adult leaders are capable of, 2) gets the young adults teaching these skills the "trained" certification 3) forces the scoutcraft staff to focus on their skills and teaching abilities even more.

 

Please keep the ideas coming!

[SR540Beaver]

Here is the one thing I can guarantee you if an AOLS class was developed by the BSA. Someone, somewhere, most likely here would complain about how sorry of a course it is. There would be adults who would say, been there, done that, can I test out just like has been said about IOLS and WB. They would find it either not intense enough, doesn't cover what they thing it should or a waste of their time.

 

Personally, I like the idea of a council designed supplemental class. That is what we have. It is called OST - Outdoor Skills Training and it is held over two weekends, twice a year. It is a popular course and covers more advanced subjects beyond IOLS. I think it is popular in part because there is some pride in ownership since it is OUR own course designed and taught by experienced volunteers.

 

If there was a nationally ordained syllabus, the naysayers would complain about how weak and watered down and risk aversive it is and how it doesn't really cover what they think should be in it.

 

I've taught WB and IOLS and I think there is a need for standardized training. I also think there is a need for homegrown supplemental training that can target skills needed for your particular neck of the woods.

[GernBlansten]

The proper method to deliver a national syllabus of AOLS, would be for the BSA to develop modules that councils would include in their local program. Those modules would be chosen based on the councils local conditions and what scouters should know to take their charges into the wilds.

 

A council in Colorado might include backpacking, winter camping, mountain weather. Sea kayaking would be irrelevant.

A council in Florida might skip winter camping and include sea kayaking.

A council in Minnesota might skip mountain weather, but include canoeing and bug defense.

Standard modules would include wilderness first aid, LNT, wilderness survival, woodsman-ship.

 

Those skills would be delivered in a couple of weekends of immersion training, allowing the participants to actually experience, practice and master their skills.

The key would be to develop the modules to give a scouter enough skills to confidently use EDGE to train other leaders and scouts.

 

We could even have our own catch phrase.

I used to be an AOLS, and a Good 'Ol AOLS Too!

 

[John-in-KC]

A lot of what Gern said applies. Some areas I think I'm fairly competent; others I'm a rank beginner. Still others, I once was competent, but now need intensive refresher to be up to par. emb's list of curricula would be a good starting point.

 

I think two other modules are needed:

 

- Fieldcraft in cold weather

- Fieldcraft in hot weather

 

Each brings its own particular risks to the table. Being able to work and play comfortably, summer and winter, are skills fewer and fewer folk have these days.