Wood Badge controversies

[kcs_hiker]

I just finished the practical segment of Wood Badge training. Having read some of the arguments on this forum about 21st century Wood Badge and how bad it is for outdoor skills training etc. I'm a bit confused...

 

Yes we didn't spend a LOT of time on outdoor skills... in fact practically none, other than pitching a tent on an overnight and preparing 2 dinners and 2 breakfasts in camp which, at least, to me, should be pretty basic for anyone associated with scouting for any lenght of time. But we spent a LOT of time on building relationships, which, to me, is far more important as far as having an influence on young people's lives.

 

Outdoor skills can be learned elsewhere can't they?

 

I didn't hear ANYTHING about an "adult leader telling a scout to put out a fire" or any of the other things mentioned when criticizing the modern Wood Badge...

 

Have they changed the syllabus?

 

kcs

Proud Beaver of

Wood Badge C-38-09

working my ticket

[GernBlansten]

I guess it comes down to what is really important to the youth.

 

If its focused on building relationships through using EDGE and other indoor leadership (management) techniques, then it probably is appropriate. You must be comfortable taking youth into the boardroom.

 

If its focused on taking the youth in an environment that requires them to use and practice leadership skills, then it falls short. You must be comfortable taking youth into the wilds.

 

Since Woodbadge is the pinnacle of scouter training, I guess the former is more important to the BSA than the later.

 

 

[kcs_hiker]

I guess you see what you want to...

 

I don't know anything about boardrooms or building relationships by going indoors.

 

I had a great experience and never felt as if I was being taught to make scouting an indoors activity.

 

Just me, but then again I learned a long time ago that what you get out of anything depends mostly on what you put into it.

 

kcs

Proud Beaver of

Wood Badge C-38-09

working my ticket

[GernBlansten]

Ah, but were you taught to make Scouting an outdoor activity? If so, how?

[SR540Beaver]

Gern,

 

Explain to me how EDGE (Explain, Demonstrate, Guide, Enable) is an indoor, board room management technique. All it is is a fancy name given to a time honored way of teaching a skill ANYWHERE. When we set up an axe yard on a campout to earn the Totin Chit or how to build fires to earn the Firemn Chit, we are using EDGE. Typically an older boy explains it to the scouts, then he demonstrates it to them himself, then he guides them as they try it themselves and finally he enables them to practice and master their new skill. Thru the example of the older boy's leadership, they will in turn do the same for scouts entering the program after them. EDGE can be applied anywhere in any situation. Don't let the naysayers who have never taken 21st Century WB or a fancy acronym for an age old technique throw you.

 

Who in the world sees Scouting as anything but an outdoor program? Does WB really have to get that elementary?

 

kcs_hiker,

 

No, they have not changed the syllabus. What you've experienced here is one particular person with a fixation who talks about a course he has never partaken of. The patrol method is still alive and well in Scout training materials regardless of what some folks say.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

[Eamonn]

I'm trying to dig up a syllabus from the old course.

I have this nagging feeling that Patrols do more as Patrols in the 21st Century course than they did in the old course.

Sure in the old course a lot of time was spent in the Patrol site watching a couple of the more experienced people do the cooking.

But I feel sure when you add in the Patrol Meeting that is held between the "Weekends" The participants do more as a Patrol.

Of course I might be wrong.

I'll get back to you.

Eamonn

[SR540Beaver]

E,

 

I never saw the old course. I have staffed two 21st Century and am on staff for a third. The patrols camp together, cook together, eat together, learn together, travel together, do program patrol together, do service patrol together, do a patrol presentation together, etc. They send their PL to the daily troop PLC who reports back to them at their daily patrol meeting. They even create a patrol totem and yell and have an outside patrol meeting between weekends.

 

Nope, no patrol method there at all.

[emb021]

"I never saw the old course. I have staffed two 21st Century and am on staff for a third. The patrols camp together, cook together, eat together, learn together, travel together, do program patrol together, do service patrol together, do a patrol presentation together, etc. They send their PL to the daily troop PLC who reports back to them at their daily patrol meeting. They even create a patrol totem and yell and have an outside patrol meeting between weekends."

 

I went thru the prior Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge in the 80s and staffed a 21st Century one.

 

We did all the above in BSLWB. On the last weekend, all the patrols hiked out and camped by themselves for the night. Then each patrol cooked a dish to bring together for the final dinner.

 

[TAHAWK]

Both the second version of Wood Badge and the current version are heavy on modeling the Patrol Method.

 

As noted, the pattern of explain and show, followed by application, is traditional Scouting - at least as old as 1954 from my personal experience.

 

The first example of the "EDGE" approach to teaching in the current course is teaching use of a backpacking stove. That hardly seems like an especially "indoor" or "corporate" topic, unless we're talking about Coleman USA.

[GernBlansten]

Quick question,

How can someone employ EDGE to teach scoutcraft when no scoutcraft is taught to the EDGE trained leader?

[1HR_A_WEEK]

>How can someone employ EDGE to teach scoutcraft when no scoutcraft is taught to the EDGE trained leader?

 

Didn't realize that scoutcraft was passed down by oral tradition only. You are splitting hairs. Lots of other adult scout training available to get all the scoutcraft a person could need.

 

Plus let's not forget all of the other resources that are available - books, guides, personal scouting experience growing up, etc. etc. You can be the most experienced adult scouter in the world and be a terrible teacher and leader.

 

Give a person the tools to teach and lead effectively and they can accomplish anything in scouting. We are adults, what they do in the wild isn't rocket science.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Wood Badge is not designed to teach scoutcraft, let me say that again. Wood Badge is not to teach scoutcraft. It did at one time, but it no longer does. It's as fair to blame Wood Badge not teaching scoutcraft as it to blame a History teacher that his pupil cannot explain the Theory of Relativity.

 

Perhaps Wood Badge should teach scoutcraft, that is another discussion, but anyone going to Wood Badge to learn scoutcraft is horribly mislead. The Wood Badge curriculum is desgined to give participants the tools do do their Scouting jobs the best they can. Council and District Committee Chairs go to Wood Badge, Commissioners of every ilk as well as Venturing Advisors, Den Leaders and Cubmasters grace Gilwell Hall. It's not a scoutcraft course, it is a management/education course.

 

There I said it. If you want Wood Badge to teach scoutcraft, talk to the keepers of the Wood Badge curriculum. Pointing out the obvious, that Wood Badge does not teach scoutcraft, does nothing to get Wood Badge to teach scoutcraft.

 

I have no idea why BSA did what they did with Wood Badge, but its been done. Wood Badge does not teach scoutcraft as it is not a Boy Scout scoutcraft course

[Eagle92]

What I think gern and others lament about WB is the fact that outdoor skills are not emphasised as they use to be. Back in the day, when I firts looked at taking WB, You had to be fully trained SM or ASM, ie taken the SM Fundamentals course (today's TiS, SM Specific, and IOLS) AND be in a leadership role for 2 years. The only exception to the 2 year rule would be young adults in the 18-20 bracket who gre w up in the program. So you had to have a foundation in outdoor skills PRIOR to takign BS WB. Sorry don't know the prereqs for CS WB.

 

Today to take WB, you can be a brand new CS leader with less than a year's expereince and no outdoor training, and take WB.

 

I actually got into a discussion on this topic with my SE. HE told me that no one could go through WB without taking IOLS, and I had to rmind him that Cub Scouters and venturing leaders are not required to take IOLS, but can go through WB. he replied that he forgot about that, and talked about coming up with some advance outdoor skills courses.

 

So Gern et al,

can i steal your ideas for GernBadge?

[GernBlansten]

Eagle92 makes my point.

WB is held as the pinnacle of scouter education. To obtain your beads, you have become fully trained as a scout leader. If you don't grasp for the beads, you are somehow a lesser scouter, less able to deliver the program.

 

Yet, you can get through WB without ever pitching a tent or putting on a backpack. Ever starting a fire or delivering first aid.

 

I think it tells a deeper story. One about the direction of BSA. Its away from creating well rounded, confident outdoorsmen and towards creating well rounded, confident managers.

[BrentAllen]

In our council WB courses, participants do camp in their tents and do go on an overnighter away from the main camp site - carrying all their gear backpacks. The only part of the courses I've been on that were conducted inside were some of the meals the first weekend, in the dining hall. For the second weekend, the participants cooked and ate their meals at their patrol sites - on tables, under tarps.

 

I'm not sure where all this "indoors course" comes from. Other than a couple of meals, all of ours is in the outdoors.