Too Many Cooks?

[BadenP]

Sorry Eamonn but National studies have been done and shown that volunteerism is down more than 25% from five years ago in the country, BSA was included. Maybe you live in a unique microcosm of everything is rosy, but I rather doubt it. You can believe what you will but the statistics are saying the opposite. BSA I think even did their own study on volunteerism in the BSA and concluded basically the same thing. Even your convoluted little prose does not change the facts.

[desertrat77]

I appreciate everything the long-term, dedicated scouter brings. I wonder how many people off the street can arrive with that depth of scouting spirit right away? They have to start somewhere, right?

 

As a guy who moves every couple years in the military, I gotta admit, it's not easy to join a new council. For every scouter that welcomes you, there are several more who let it be known you are An Outsider, A Wearer of the Silly New Council Patch That Only New Guys Wear, etc. This is a tough bunch to get to know. They aren't bad people...they are the old scouters and like any club, you have to jump thru the right hoops over the years to be let into the circle.

 

Outsiders can smell clubiness a mile away. Doesn't matter whether it's a bowling team, church, or scouting. Do I want to go thru the tribe's ritual of What It Takes to Be Included? Yes or no? People vote with their feet.

 

So I'm not putting the old timers down. I think if someone is a good in their other walks of life--parent, employer/employee, citizen--they have the right stuff to grow into a seasoned scouter. We just have to be willing to invite the new folks around the campfire, and not make them wait outside it until we have deemed them worthy enough.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Hal_Crawford]

I'm sorry but the clubbiness that desertrat describes is one of the least endearing qualities of scouters.

 

A few years ago we had a pair of 15 year old twin brothers join our troop. They had just moved here as there Navy officer dad was sent to a post in the Gulf. The scouts in our troop made them welcome and they immediately had a circle of friends in a new town. I was particularly glad to see this as I grew up in a military family and knew what it was like to be in a new city and a new school. If only adults could be counted on to behave as well as the scouts.

 

Hal

[Eamonn]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20090801/NEWS01/708019939

Eamonn

[SR540Beaver]

http://www.volunteeringinamerica.gov/assets/resources/VolunteeringInAmericaResearchHighlights.pdf

[Eamonn]

"Maybe you live in a unique microcosm of everything is rosy,"

Been wondering if this is a long winded way of saying that a Scout is cheerful?

 

Maybe when it comes to this "clubiness"?

I really am guilty of living in this so called microcosm of everything is rosy?

Truth is that in the many years I've been around Scouts and Scouting I have yet to see anything that might be taken for "clubiness". If anything the exact opposite.

As a group Scouter's at least the many thousands I've met seem very willing to accept and help new faces.

Of course it's a two way street, if someone acts like a real twit,people will in turn treat him like a real twit.

Eamonn

[Narraticong]

I would agree there can be a bit of "clubbiness". I found this when I got back to Scouting after a long absence. Some folks seemd reluctant to accept anyone new, especially if that new guy had some different ideas. In other words, don't rock the boat! Well, I'm a canoe tipper from way back and have been known to swamp a few on purpose. So, on I went with my new ideas. Still a few guys who pretty much ignore me. But I've found that in general, they don't have much to offer, anyway. Mostly grumpy old men.

 

On the other hand there are lots of folks in Scouting who greet you with a smile and a left hand shake. Latch on to those folks and make them you friends. They are likely the ones who make things happen.

 

Scouting is no different than anywhere else. Choose your friends wisely.

 

Ken

[Eagle92]

I've been in 5 councils, plus did the European Camp Staff program where I worked at 2 camps in the UK. Yes there are cliques at times. And yes sometimes the "old guard" will look at you with reservations, especially if your the brand new DE But Scouting is Scouting no matter where you go, and I've found that Scout spirit is the key to breaking those barriers. Being cheerful even when doing irksome tasks and getting involved is the best way to break down those barriers.

 

Best example of this would be the time I was doing a major, muddy project at camp. Some folks wanted to knwo where I was sleepign at since they hadn't seen me all morning. One of the long time scouters who was with said "we got ourselves a real DE' and explained what our small group was doing and why I was covered in mud. That changed alot of my interactions with the scouters in my new district and broke down barriers.

[Eamonn]

I wasn't thinking about DE's!

 

While the adults that are new to Scouting do tend to look up to any DE. (A new one or one that has been around for a while.)

Some people unfair as it might be judge a new DE on how good a job the last guy did.

This puts the new DE between a rock and a hard place.

If the last DE did a great job, it's a hard act to follow.

If he did a lousy job? Then at times the new guy gets painted with the same brush!

We in the Council I serve have been very fortunate that DE's as a rule have tended to stay in the Council for a long time.

Being as we are a small Council with only four Districts, I think the professionals feel safe once they get to know the volunteers and find out who can do what and is willing to do it.

In the District I'm in. We had a really outstanding DE, who did a great job and was liked and admired by just about all the volunteers. The guy who followed her was really bad.

At the same time a lot of things were going on!

The FD was arrested for doing something naughty to his son's girl friend! So we never seen him again! The Council finances went bad and the SE read the writing on the wall and moved on, before he was asked to move out.

So this new DE didn't have anyone to take him under their wing, or train him. He choose to fall into some bad habits -Not returning calls, or emails and being really hard to get a hold of.

He only lasted two years and when he went, no one was sad too see him go.

I think a big part of he problem was that the volunteers were taking the running of the District a lot more to heart than he was.

His replacement is while not as outgoing and friendly as the female DE that was in the District for nearly ten years, is doing a far better job. He has looked for people who will get the District moving in the right direction and who do get the job done.

At times what might seem as this "Clubiness" is more to do with people feeling over protective about what they are doing and they fear that someone new will come in and mess things up! This isn't always a bad thing, but when they are not doing a good job?? Then at times there can be problems and finding a tactful way of moving them is needed.

I in the past have given people some great sounding titles ( Boy's Life Coordinator, District Procurement Officer!) as a kinder way of moving them aside to make room for someone else.

Eamonn.

[desertrat77]

Eagle92, that's a great example of servant leadership...the willingness to work hard and share experiences really opens doors.

 

As a UC, I'll go on camp outs with the troops I work for...spend at least one night (in my old canvas BSA tent, great conversation starter), chop wood, wash dishes, etc.

 

It's not much but it builds closer bonds that just visiting the troop meeting once a month. Standing around the campfire with a cup of coffee is where great conversations begin.

 

Narraticong, you are spot on. The folks that welcome newcomers with open arms are ones that get things done. The grumpy old guys tend to stick to themselves and perfect their grumpiness.

[MomToEli]

Ok, guys ... even though I am a "girl" and obviously have never been a Scout myself (thus, no practical experience) I hope you are willing to entertain my thoughts on this.

 

Let me put out there first that I truly adore BSA and what it stands for. Our youth today, boys in particular, need to be taught the values embraced by the BSA and that all seems to be getting lost in our society. If we do NOT raise them with these values I personally think there is major trouble for us just around the corner.

 

I have held the positions of Den Leader, Webelos Leader, Pack Committee Member, just now accepted on the Troop Committee, and am currently District Cubscout Roundtable Commissioner and on the District Committee as Activities Chair. I am halfway through Wood Badge training and will work my ticket items at the Troop level. I have attended every training made available to me to date. We have taken our son to every Camp activity (Day, Summer, etc) which he has been eligible to attend and I have been either a volunteer, organizer and/or written the program for each level of camp involving Cub Scouts. Hopefully based on that you will find value in my opinion.

 

What I think is happening is that people are losing sight of who and what the BSA really is - the program is morphing in all different directions to fit what people at all levels *want* it to be. How many units don't wear uniforms because they are too restricting, too military, too expensive, too uncool, too whatever? How many units push their boys through various merit badges (and demand their camps do the same)for the sake of the badge, sacrificing the learning of the character qualities those badges are designed to build when those qualities require TIME and ATTENTION to earn. Many units seem to be doing activities for the activity's sake.

 

In watching my own Den over the years and with the privilege of working with the Council and District, I've come to realize that we have lost sight of the vision. Our parents certainly don't have it - Scouts is just another on the long list of "experiences" they want their kids to have - along with participating in every sport, band, chorus and maybe church (maybe). I know that in our own Pack I have heard many times from our Committee Chair that we are simply NOT going to do things the way "the book" (the Leader's Guide) says we are - whether we are talking about things like Tour Permits, getting pre-approval for fundraisers or requiring uniform pants vs jeans or even that shirts need to be tucked in. We don't do uniform inspections, we don't sing songs or do skits at Pack Meetings or camp outs. We have only had one campfire program at a camp out - the one that *I* planned. We don't require parents to lift a finger at camp outs outside of setting up their own tents because we want people to come and relax and just have "fun". We have tossed out the whole "fun with a purpose" idea and gone strictly with "fun". And frankly, our parents seem to want it that way. Before you suggest changing it, the Committee Chair would have to be unseated in order for that to happen - and no one, including me, is willing to take on the task. I'm just grateful we are moving on.

 

Two years ago at summer (Cub)camp leaders were complaining that there was too much free time in the program. There really WAS, too. The next year we completely rewrote the program and schedule and now people complain there wasn't enough free time. Sigh. You can't please very many people, it seems. But - we are going to going to go back to our roots with this one. Whether Boy Scouts or Cub Scouts, Summer Camp is going to be about building boys' character. In the process they will earn some achievements and badges.

 

We have failed to communicate the vision - to parents, to boys, to leaders. Maybe we have never caught the vision in the first place.

 

(stepping off soapbox, dragging it back into the corner, and tiptoeing away ...)

[Oak Tree]

We've had years where we took too many adults to camp (never as many as the troop Eamonn mentions, though!) The extra adults would hang around together, not look for ways to help with the troop, and mostly kibitz. All-in-all it didn't make for great adult camaraderie. And the other thing is that the Scouts don't get to hang around with each other without adults watching over their every move. This year we were more like 30 Scouts to 4 adults. Everything worked great.

 

As for the clubbiness, I think that I would describe it in our district more as a network that gets built up. When a new person (like me) comes into the district, I didn't feel unwelcome. But at the same time, the people who had been around for years clearly knew each other, would greet each other at roundtables, and would laugh and joke. I can't think of any time that anyone did anything to shut me out, but at the beginning I felt very much like an outsider. I try to remember that whenever I see new people in the pack or the troop or the district.