Training or f

[Nike]

Five camporees? Our troop would mutiny, including the adults.

 

I've suggested a similar program for our GS Council to introduce GS leaders to more than just platform tent camping. Haven't heard back.

 

I would love to go on adventurous weekends with no kids, husband, pets, etc where I could learn about something way out of my comfort range with lots of expert instructors.

 

 

[resqman]

Just got back from a new class offered by my council: LAST Leader Advanced Skills Training. First time if has been offered. They plan on making it a regularly offered class that participants would take mulitple times.

 

The concept was they were 3 topics taught during the day and one night time land nav session. This weekend they presented A)Splicing and Pioneering, B)Advanced Wood Tools, C)GPS. They alloted 90 minutes for each topic.

 

As you might imagine, Splicing and Pioneering became a 90 minute splicing class. Ran out of time before any pioneering was even considered. Advanced wood tools was make a maul, and how to join two pieces of wood with a dovetail joint. GPS instructor was a surveyor by trade and had a fancy GPS. But he would not take out his topo map because it was raining and it would get wet (even though we were sitting around a table under a tarp). Eventually we walked around the open field and recorded a few waypoints.

 

The participants were expierenced outdoors people. 3 of the 5 were Eagle scouts. 3 of the 5 were active military. 3 of the 5 participants would have been able to teach at least one of the sessions with no prior preparation if the supplies had been provided.

 

The general response was each topic session should have been at least 3 hours. Possibly a full weekend on each topic. Instruction should quickly review the T21 requirements and should relate to as many of the requirements of the cooresponding merit badge as possible. The participants wanted a hands on, do the stuff type environment but also wanted the class designed to show adults methods to pass the information on to the scouts who would teach other scouts.

 

For instance, Splicing and Pioneering. Time should be spent actually tying the eye, short, and end splice. Then at a minimum one small pioneering project should be assembled using at least three of the four lashings. Simple camp gadets like tables, stands, pack hangers, etc. that could be taught to the scouts to make campouts more enjoyable as well as pass the T21 requirement for camp gadget. If you can lash a free standing table, then you have the skills to lash a 20 ft lookout tower.

 

Utensiless cooking was supposed to be offered but the instructor was unable to attend last moment. Student discussions lead to some solutions for other students. During evaluation time, the cooking topic was roughed out for the course evaluator. It involved menu selection, thrifty purchasing and storage, expanding cooking methods to include box oven, dutch ovens aren't just for cobblers, utensiless cooking (not just foil pouches) and more.

 

What I learned was that there are expierenced outdoorsman in other troops. If the adult leadership in my troop is weak in a specific area, then there are adults in other troops I can call upon to teach the adults in my troop. Maybe have a Sat. afternoon gathering so Knowledgeable adult can transfer knowledge to weak skilled adults.

 

[Eagle92]

Someone mentioned the OA,. and I like the idea. Closest we have to that is the SCOUTREACH mentoring program. That's where an Arrowman works with and additional troop that needs some mentoring fora period of time. It sounds great, and in some larger areas I bet it works, but it has its challenges in my neck of the woods as the same folks seem to do evrything. But that is an idea.

 

Another idea: how about some of this info being presented at RT.

[Beavah]

I'm trying to work out what the "f" is for?

 

It's for old fellows who have a hard time typin' and get interrupted by their wives before they can finish a thought.

 

I think offerin' additional class-type support, "advanced" or whatnot, is an OK thing. But I'm with da ladies, who seem to be better at assessing their own ability than us fellows.

 

Bein' taught a skill is a different thing than being proficient at a skill. One yeh might teach in a weekend, the other takes experience developed over time in a variety of conditions, and quite a bit of practice and additional coaching. Can't do that in a weekend, or even a week.

 

And bein' proficient in a skill is a different thing than being able to lead inexperienced children in that activity. One involves just self-management of a competent person, eh? The other takes a whole additional range of skills and a bunch more experience so yeh can anticipate what the kids are goin' to do or have problems with. Can't do that in a weekend or a week either, eh? Can't do it at all unless yeh have kids around!

 

I remember workin' with a fellow, a very proficient climber, on a rappel tower. He was totally surprised by all da bizarre, unanticipated things kids did and the problems that cropped up as a result. Where he in his own climbin' would have been safe but more laid back and relaxed, in an institutional environment he needed to be more formal and more alert to da kids to be safe. Took him quite a while to learn and adjust. It's a mistake to think that because we're safe and proficient in our own outdoor activity that we're goin' to be safe and proficient doin' the activity with kids.

 

Beavah

 

[Eamonn]

Beavah - Thanks for the explanation of the "f". I thought it was some new lingo I didn't know!

 

Like it or not, most Troops are kinda nudged into doing stuff or not doing stuff which their leaders either like or dislike.

I enjoy messing around with rope and line.

I enjoy playing with a map and a compass.

I dislike the cold. So I'm not ever going to push for skiing or winter camping.

I took the LNT Training's because I think they are important.

I'm happy with the First Aid Training I have and know that every year I have to redo it for my job.

I'm really not that good at any one thing (Maybe cooking?).

But I don't ever see myself taking a group of Scouts on an activity that is beyond my training and comfort level.

If they want to do more that I can manage, I'm happy to help them find someone or some group that can manage what it is they want.

Much as I hate to admit it, I'm not as young as I once was and trying to keep up with a group of 16 and 17 year olds is becoming really hard -I know that I'm close to the age where I can't keep up and will end up slowing them down.

I'm really OK with all the skills that a Lad needs to become a First Class Scout.

I like to think I still have enough imagination to be able to nudge him and a PLC into using these skills to do do fun and exciting activities.

I have never taken or been involved with the Powder Horn Training. I know people who have presented it and participated in it.

All have said that they had a wonderful time. But for the most part it seems to be about finding groups in the area where you do your Scouting, who can provide the trainings and activities that are maybe beyond the capabilities of a Crew or Troop leader. Having lived where I now live for over 20 years I think that I know who these groups are and how to contact them.

Of course some are more Scout friendly than others.

Most Councils have within their ranks people who do have the expertize that kids of Scout age are able to handle. Sadly some of these guys are so expert in what they do that they forget that these kids are of Scout age. For them ( The kids.)It's just something that they maybe want to try, with not any real ambition to become expert in.

If they do want to take it to the expert level they can join that group.

So this begs the question "How expert do I need to be?"

resqman spent part of a weekend covering splicing.

I'm OK with my level of expertize in splicing, I know a lot of Sea Scouter's who are way better than I am.

But for someone new to Scouting, I don't think that learning to splice is that important. Whipping? Maybe, but not splicing.

I live at the base of the Laurel Mountains opportunities to do all sort of outdoor activities are right on my doorstep.The Laurel Highlands Hiking Trail, a 70-mile backpacking trail, goes from Ohiopyle, PA to the Conemaugh River near Johnstown. Is near at hand and is about as Scout friendly as any trail can be. Most new leaders should have no real problem taking a group of young Scouts to hike part of the trail. (Kinda sad that I never hear of anyone from any of the Troops close by using it).

Back when I was serving as Council Training Chair, a handout that we gave at Boy Scout leader trainings was a list of local contacts and places which might be useful.

I don't know if this is still being used or not.

A lot of what we need to know can be learned from just doing it. As long as people don't dive in at the deep end to start with.

I'm happy to go car camping and use the camp site as a base for Scouts who want to go off and do whatever it is they need to do.

I'm more than happy to have Scouts work with people who know about whatever it might be than I know.

 

We as individuals decide what we want to know and how far we will go with it.

I'm never going to be a good skier. I have no interest in skiing and hate being out in the cold.

I'm happy just being able to do what I do at a Boy Scout level.

I don't ever see myself taking Scouts to climb any big mountains or going up the Orinoco with a long pole.

When I needed to find out more and know more about navigation I took the time to work with people who were in the know and read and practice the skill.

While I'm still no expert, I know enough to get by and not look to silly. - Some of th Sea Scouts are better than I am, and I'm happy about that.

I'm more than happy to work with anyone who wants to pick what little brains I have left. Sad thing is that most of the guys involve in Scouting are so busy that they don't have the time or are unwilling to make the time.

Eamonn.

 

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Our council offers a course called Backcountry Outdoor Leader Skills. It is a great next step from IOLS. I've pasted details from the NCAC site:

 

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If your unit is planning a Do-It-Yourself Ultimate Adventure BCOLS is for you. The BCOLS course is designed to provide Scouters exposure to skills useful in any backcountry activity. Its primary focus is preparing adults for backcountry activities that will not take place at locations supported by BSA infrastructure. BCOLS provides training not available in other BSA courses.

 

The course is in two parts: one 6-hour classroom session followed by a two-day weekend outdoor session.

 

Part 1 Addresses ways to effectively work with older youth. Covers the detailed preparation and planning that must be done before you go out including risk management. Summarizes the personal and crew equipment used for lightweight camping. Plans the weekend overnight session.

 

Part 2 Participants will practice core leader skills for the outdoor program Leave No Trace, navigation (map & compass plus GPS), terrain awareness, expedition menu planning and food preparation, stove and stove maintenance, wilderness first aid issues, expedition health and hygiene, team building.

 

Scouters planning to accompany a crew to any of the BSA-sponsored High Adventure Camps should also attend the High Adventure Training provided by the Council's High Adventure Committee.

 

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I took this course last year and found it very helpful. I don't know if other councils offer this but if they don't it would be a good model to emulate.

 

At the end we were all certified in Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, Climb on Safely and Trek Safely. There was lots of excellent information about gear, land navigation (map, compass and GPS), camp setup and bear safety, weather, health and hygiene for a trek (but not much first aid; that is another class), trail food, stoves, LNT and a lot more. This all went way beyond the T21 level of IOLS. Got a ton of great handouts.

 

Being a large council we have access to more resources than many, particularly in terms of nationally trained staff. That would be the biggest challenge to replicating this in other councils.

[desertrat77]

The OA is a great resource for outdoor training. It would help them fulfill the "service" ideal.

 

True, there may be adult scouters who have an issue with being taught by youth. But if a few motivated scouts serve on the cadre, it would go a long way in showing new scouters the benefit of boy-led troops.

 

Regarding the wish for scouting for adults: I hear you! This can be done, but more often than not, informally.

 

Many moons ago, we ASMs would convene on our SM's property in the desert every now and again for a weekend off site. Not an official BSA event, no scouts. We'd cook feasts, hike, build pioneering contraptions, and start big bonfires and just sit around and shoot the breeze.

 

It was like kind of like scouting for adults, except you could fill your canteen cup with whatever beverage you desired, and perhaps enjoy a cigar, if you were so inclined.