Woodbadge, big whup?

[asm 411]

"But so many scouters (especially the ones with the red, white and blue square knots) know that there is nothing more for them to learn."

 

Ouch... I never have been stereotyped as someone who knew there was nothing more for me to learn. Actually I would have to say that earning that red, white and blue square knot was something that opened my eyes to how little I did know.

 

I am truly sorry that you have experienced this kind of behavior from my fellow Eagles. Please accept my apology for their behavior.

[sheldonsmom]

I don't mind the training that is required for positions. I mind the amount of money needed. Commissioner college, University of Scouting, Baloo training, WoodBadge, OLS, Scoutmaster fundementals, Cub Scout fundementals, uniforms, plus all the expenses just camping with the boys, the cost of the boys themselves, and then multiply it by two for both parents involved and it adds up to a lot of money. My husband has had to put of WB about 4 years now because of money. The choice is either WB or summer camp for our son or daughters.

For a lot of potential leaders, the cost is the main reason why they do not attend. I do understand that training costs money to put on.

[NeilLup]

Hello sheldonsmom,

 

I don't know about your council, but mine has the policy that no one will be denied the opportunity to do Wood Badge because of finances. We have a number of ways of raising scholarship money and we pursue those ways aggressively. Have you or your husband told your council training group that finances are a problem.

 

Having said that, I have had people who "needed" a scholarship show up in a fancy car or chain smoke during the course and felt a bit like a fool for the effort that I had put into raising scholarship money. Still, I believe they were better Scouters for having been to WB.

 

As far as some of the comments made, there is a saying in BSA training that if you send a monkey to training, you get back a trained monkey. The same thing applies to Wood Badge. Just going to any training will not make one a better leader; one needs to comprehend, appreciate and use the training. And yet, in some cases, Wood Badge groups can be arrogant and exclusionary. That is regrettable.

[gcnphkr]

Okay, I overstated with the "especially" part. Eagle Scouters are no more resistant to training than other Scouters.

[HICO_Eagle]

As I have been told many times. The current syllabus was born out of feedback and critiques of the Wood Badge for Boy Scout Leaders. There were a few regional teams of former course directors (a variety of Course Directors from the 70's, 80's and 90's) assembled with professional educators to rewrite the WB21C in a manner that the feedback and critiques had asked for.

 

I understand many numerous WB course critiques in the 90s questioned, if Wood Badge learners are already experienced in the outdoors, why is the curriculum on an aggressive outdoor schedule?

[sherminator505]

Interesting discussion! I've observed that the biggest critics of Wood Badge are those who haven't done it. I have also observed that Wood Badge isn't for everyone, and the majority of Scouters that do attend are those who plan to stick around a while (i.e. long after the kids discover sports, cars and dating). Sure, there are those who go on in Scouting for many years but avoid Wood Badge because they question its value, but those who have done it generally consider it a valuable experience.

[asmt530]

This seems like a good post to burn my first posting to....

 

I have taken a LOT of team building, self help, and corporate quality management type courses and Woodbadge was a repeat of a lot of different parts from one training course or another....just presented in a different way.

 

I found it interesting to step back and watch my behavior as this material was presented to people. For most (which I found hard to swallow) this was the first time they had been exposed to any of it. When the "axe and log", "bead" game was played I could not believe that 55 people in that room had never played that game and what's more, didn't understand the impact of the game. John Denver wrote "It's About Time" after playing that game. It was presented to him in a completely different context but the game is the same. If you examine the game and your behavior during the game closely you will find that the way you played that one game is typical of the way you live (or play) your life.

 

I used to teach a lot of the WB problem solving stuff and I have been through most of it several times. What makes it special is the environment it is taught in, the history behind it and and the benefits the training brings to Scouting.

 

It is all good.

[shortridge]

asmt530,

 

Is the "axe and log," "bead" game the same as the "Game of Life"?

[eghiglie]

I learned at lot at Woodbadge a number of years. Not just about leadership but about myself. I've used the training to help me in my life, at work and in Scouts. When I started a unit in 2007 it was because of what I learned in Woodbadge. In 2006 I ran a Webelos Day Camp because of what I learned.

 

Woodbadge also taught me to say No and walk away because of it. Prior to Woodbadge I would just say Yes without thinking.

 

In the district I'm in woodbadge is pushed hard and more than 75% of the people at RT have 2 beads, with 3 beads becoming popular.

 

 

[asmt530]

Shortridge

 

Yes it is the game of life. It is mostly referred to as the black and red game. Red would represent the axe and log and black would represent the beads.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

It is not.

[emb021]

"When the "axe and log", "bead" game was played I could not believe that 55 people in that room had never played that game and what's more, didn't understand the impact of the game."

 

Why are you surprised that people had never played it before?

 

My first exposure to the game was when I took the OA's National Leadership Seminar in 2003. It's my understanding that WB picked up the idea from NLS. I then staffed 21CWB in 2004. The game overall went well in NLS, not so much in WB. My feeling was that the NLS staff were better prepared to run it then my WB staff. Its a game that really demands that the staff know what they are doing, and I'm just not sure that most WB staffs are really able to prepare for it.

 

Since then, my Fraternity has incorporated the game into the latest revision of on of our leadership development courses which has become focused on conflict resolution (it used to be advanced leader with stuff on conflict resolution, and now conflict resolution has taken over that particular course). This revision was done around 2006/2007. Am sure they got the game from its original source.

 

 

Also, fwiw, I've never heard it called the "ax log" and "beads" game OR the red and green game. Its usually called the "Game of Life" or the "Win All You Can" game.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I frequently hear that Wood Badge is just recycled management theory and the same stuff is presented at so many different Mangement seminars and the stuff is so old hat and I just burn inside.

 

Not every scouter occupies a Management Position. Not every scouter has had an opportunity to attend employee development courses. Many Scouters only perk from year to year is that they are allowed to continue their employment.

 

If you work in a position that Wood Badge, Win all you can games and the like are just so much a rehash for you, resolve to help those for whom this is new ground, it would seem to be the scouty thing to do

[eaglescout1996]

I've finally had the opportunity to read the thread from front to back, and I'll through in my $.02.

 

I have a father who was off and on, being my SM growing up. He earned his Eagle in about '66. His attitude was that WB was for adult leaders who weren't Scouts as boys, as WB teaches outdoor skills. I earned Eagle in '96 and attended Golden Falcon, which was Transatlantic Councils version of Brownsea or JLT. A week long experience, with a full troop of eight patrols with eight boys each. It was full of leadership lessons and outdoor scoutcraft skills....and probably one of the best times I had as a scout.

 

Fast forward ten years, and I'm serving on the District Commissioner staff. I'm being bombarded with the "Wood badge Talk", how I should sign up for the next course because it's the pinnacle of Scouting. I decided that I would cave in to the pressure and attend WB...not sure what I was getting into, or what I would get out of my $210.

 

You know what, I had a good time. I didn't particularly learn anything new, but I did leave filled with excitement of what Scouting had to offer me and my community. The sad thing was, I didn't bond very well with my patrol mates. Of the seven of us, five were LDS and had all known each other for a while, one was a female DL, and there was me. I didn't think we had a high concentration of LDS units, but the Course Director, SPL, and about half the staff were, along with about 75% of the participants. I just remember thinking, "Theyre telling me that there are all these benefits in Diversity, but yet, this isn't a very diverse group of people."

 

It did give me an opportunity to sit and talk to some Scouters about LDS, and we both sort of asked questions of each other. One of the Scouters biggest questions were why other units treated them or look at them differently. My response was, as a boy, the only time we would see the LDS units was at Camporee, and that was Friday night and Saturday....and that by Sunday morning, magically they disappeared and we didn't see them again until the next Camporee.

 

What I did take away from working my ticket was realizing my own faults of constant procrastination. I've always known it existed, but WB make me confront it and actually work on it. It's still there, but I've learned to manage it a bit.

 

I wear my beads, but I don't have critter stuff all over the place or wear a WB belt or buckle (I prefer my almost 20 year old OA "Indian Chief" one). If someone asks me my critter, I'll tell them, and it's a joy to find another antelope, as it always seems they're hard to come by. My wife, who has only been in scouting about two months as a District Committee member, is already getting assaulted about attending WB. If she decides to attend next year, I'm going to try and keep most of the curriculum away from her, as she's pretty well versed in the Covey stuff and I would want her to experience it herself.

 

As for my 60 year old father, after discussing what 21CWB is about (and what it's not), he's actually really considering trying to go next year. After almost 30 years in the military and a management job with NASA, most of it will be just rehashing, but I'm sure it will give him a new sense of vigor and excitement about being a Scouter again.