kc_scouting_dad Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Does anyone know what the official policy of BSA is on who can and cannot cross over during the ceremony, or if there is a policy? We have a situation in our pack where we have boys who are going on into a Boy Scout troop, and some who are not. Some feel that only those who are going on into a troop should cross-over, and others feel that all of them should cross-over whether they are joining a troop or not. I guess what I am looking for here is tangible evidence to supply to our pack committee about this. Just so you know my stance, I feel that only those joining a troop should cross-over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I look at it more as a graduation. You don't have to go to college to get to participate in the high school graduation. If the boys have meet the requirements to leave Cubs and go to Boy Scouting (age or AOL), then they are part of the cross over. Our pack gave all the boys a Boy Scout handbook at crossover/graduation. They may not go to Boy Scouts this week but maybe, just maybe, they will look at that book and change their mind. Also, not all boys may be crossing over to the same troop. Would you make them have different ceremonies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc_scouting_dad Posted November 15, 2002 Author Share Posted November 15, 2002 They would all be involved in the same ceremony. It is my understanding that the traditions of Scouting dictate that only those boys joining a troop, at the time of the ceremony, participate in the ceremony. Am I wrong about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are not crossing over to Boy Scouts, why would you participate in a "Crossing Over Ceremony"? The name is kind of self evident to me. I would assume that the ceremony is for those who have chosen to move directly from being a Cub Scout to being a Boy Scout. The world already has too much of an entitlement attitude and this sounds like the kids who are not moving on to Boy Scouts feel like they are getting short changed if they don't get to participate. Kind of like those silly participation trophies they give in sports so kids feelings won't be hurt if they don't have something to take home like the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winners. I would say the ceremony is more of an induction ceremony than a graduation. Now that I've spouted off without ever having been involved in one, would someone more in the know tell me where I am wrong please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Although I appreciate sctmom's comparison to a high school graduation, to me the crossover ceremony has always been more of an induction into Boy Scouts rather than a graduation from Cub Scouting. During this ceremony we remove the symbols of cubbing from the scout (and present them to the parents) as we bestow the symbols of Boy Scouting to him. I have seen and used in the past a graduation ceremony for all the Webelos and then a crossover for the ones going to a troop. BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 What do you do about boys from one den going to 2 different troops? Two ceremonies or both troops? At my son's crossover, some of the boys had not decided yet what troop to join. So they crossed over, the SM that was there shook their hand, removed their blue shoulder loops, etc. The boys that joined his troop later got a troop t-shirt, something he would have normally handed to them at the crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc_scouting_dad Posted November 15, 2002 Author Share Posted November 15, 2002 The way that we have our program planned is this: 1) Award Arrow of Light to scouts who have earned it. 2) Pack Graduation Ceremony for all 2nd yr. Webelos. 3) Cross-Over for scouts joining a troop at the time of the ceremony. Does this fall in line with what you have done in the past Bob? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Yes kc_scouting_dad , very much the same. We wanted to make sure it was meaningfull to everyone involved. BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sst3rd Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 As far as the Webolos going to different Troops; you have the one ceremony, but representatives from each of the Troops to receive their Scouts. Keeping it simple. sst3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraT7 Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 in our area, we have quite a few packs and the boys will choose different troops to go into. Some packs / troops have the same charter organizations - but there really is alot of movement between them - I don't think I've seen any group of webelos from a pack ALL go into the same troop. most packs do what KC's do - present Arrow of Light, then do graduation, then crossover. Of course, if you have ALOT of boys, this could take a long time. When a Webelo chooses a troop, that troop is notified of the date and time of the packs' crossover and the troop sends adult and/or boy representatives to welcome him into the troop. The Webelos are most impressed by having a Scout or two in full uniform & sash there FOR THEM, to welcome them. The webelos are almost always presented with their new troop numbers and insignia - some troops give them a troop t-shirt, book, neckerchief or slide - something representative of or individual to their new troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle90 Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 I agree- the Cross-over Ceremony is just that - crossing over the bridge INTO Boy Scouts. As SM i stand at the end of the bridge and present my new Boy Scout with his Troop neckerchief. I'm not going to do that to someone who is not joining our troop. And I have participated in a ceremony with 2 other SM's as the Cubs decided to join 3 different troops. No problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 I tend to agree with Sctmom and look at it more as a graduation. But then in the two years I've been coordinating the ceremonies, I don't know that we've had a boy who has flat-out said he wasn't joining a troop. Whether or not they showed up for the Troop meeting the following week is another story. In my opinion, if the crossover is an induction to the troop, it needs to be a troop function. Although we include the same swapping of epaulets, etc., I consider it a graduation from Cub Scouts and everyone participates. One thing to consider is logistics. Out of a Webelos graduating class of, say, 16 boys, 13 get their AOL and go through that ceremony. Twelve are going on to Boy Scouts and go through the cross over. Then they all go through a graduation ceremony. By this time, we're playing to an empty room and most of my Tigers have been home in their jammies for two hours. We start by calling the names of the boys who have earned the AOL and present it to them. We then call the names of all the boys crossing over, and do that ceremony. I suppose if someone was adamant that they were not going to join a troop, we would just leave them out of that second group. Frankly, if I were going to emphasize one or the other, I would make a much bigger deal out of the AOL presentation than the crossover. Oh by the way, we cross boys over into two troops which are very competitive and the leaders of which don't get along particularly well. We have representatives of both troops on hand to welcome their boys. As Pack chairman, I meet with the troops to prepare for the ceremony. One point I make is that the Pack has invited the troops to participate in OUR pack meeting. I hand them all a script, tell them to read their parts and be nice. (See my post earlier this evening about setting behavior expections at den meetings.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc_scouting_dad Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 I appreciate everyones comments and opinions but, unfortunately you have missed my question. The question was, Is there an official BSA policy on this matter? Response to Twocubdad, I agree with having the presentation of the AOL first but, how can you have the cross over then the graduation. At the point of cross over, the boys are no longer a part of the pack so therefore have nothing to graduate from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Official policy? There are no policies on ceremony to my knowledge. A boy earns his Arrow of Light (or Tiger, Wolf, Bear, etc. badge) and the Pack can mail him the badge, make him go buy it, or lavish a town hall parade in his honor. The BSA doesn't regulate other than to state that awards should be earned and awarded in a timely fashion. AOL is unique in that it is the only award that I try to SLOW down the boys in earning so they can all get it at our cross-over ceremony. The 2nd year Webelos cross-over ceremony should be just that, a ceremony for the Cub Scouts who are crossing over into Boy Scouts. In reality, most Packs combine AOL awards (which long ago many thought the boys had to join atroop to earn) and honor those who are actually crossing over. Of course you can honor the boys. My Pack has the 2nd year Webelos parents organize, plan and run the Blue and Gold Banquet which is where/when we do our ceremony for graduating and crossing over. We will honor the boys regardless if AOL is earned or if they cross over or not. Of course we will not misrepresent anything. By the way, look into the "Super Webelos" patch that the boys can earn. I believe the requirements are earning all activiity pins. How would you handle a cross-over ceremony, from a logistics point of view, if the Webelos Den leader is also the Scoutmaster of the troop that the boys are joining? At my den cross-over, I'm going to "Cub it" all the way and have one of the ASM's fill in for me. It will be my last official act as a den leader an I will savor it. At the first troop meeting for the boys, I can put on my SM "hat" and formally welcome them to the troop. A nice problem to have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc_scouting_dad Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 acco40 Thank you for your response. I didn't think there was a policy but I thought I would try here to see. This has become a real battle among our committee. As to your question, that's a tuffy. I'm glad you're so involved and respect the fact that you can do it. I guess it comes down to whether you would rather be the one crossing them over into the troop or be the one welcoming them into the troop. I don't envy your decision. It is a wonderful problem to have. By the way, my son is receiving his "Super Webelos" patch this week.(This message has been edited by kc_scouting_dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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