MarkS Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I took Wood Badge, completed my ticket, and got a couple beads for it. I've taken those lessons learned and used them to serve the youth in my son's unit for the last three plus, going on four years now. This summer I used them to serve the youth in my council by working on the adult staff of an NYLT course. I got a third bead for doing that. I didn't know that was going to happen when I volunteered. I volunteered because I was asked to take over as Scoutmaster of the unit I serve and wanted to know what the course was like so I could better determine if a boy was ready to take it. The course reinforced my Wood Badge training and gave me another opportunity to deliver its promise to the youth, it improved my ability to associate and work with youth, it gave me a great example of how a model troop can be achieved through the youth leadership, it gave me a better picture of what my unit is doing right and not so right. Frankly, I can't think of a better way to put the lessons I learned at Wood Badge to practice than to pass them on to the youth. No. I don't think NYLT dilutes the meaning of the Wood Badge beads. Nope. Not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Mark, Thanks for volunteering your time to staff NYLT, I know how hard that is from staffing JLT back in the day. The problem I have with awarding WB beads for NYLT is that there is no national recognition for the YOUTH and other adults who are staffing the course. Let's face it the youth are putting in just as much time as the adults, sometimes more if you include the youth going to Philmont for the staffer training in addition to them attending their original NYLT, and all the staff trainings. And let's not forget the other adults who are takign the time to staff the event juts like you are. They have to go through all the staff weekends just like the WB folks. Some of those adults are college students who have been through the program as a youth and want to give back, but don't have the money or time to do WB at that stage of their lives. (This message has been edited by eagle92) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 "it the youth are putting in just as much time as the adults, sometimes more if you include the youth going to Philmont for the staffer training" There is no staffer training for NYLT at Philmont. This stopped when NYLT was rolled out a couple of years back. NAYLE is NOT "NYLT Staff training", but a further leadership development course for those who participated in NYLT. I will agree with the issue of no National recognition for NYLT staffers, both youth & adults. I do not agree with the idea of having a knot. There are other options: special patch, special neckerchief, special belt buckle. There are precedents for these with other courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 EMB, Understood, haven't kept up with all the changes between JLT and NYLT. To my knowledge I haven't seen any national staff patches, buckles, etc for JLT staff, only local stuff like my old council's use of the Smokey Bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 emb, That explains why the youth I saw in 2003 (who were doing final staff development in PTC before heading out to camp as staff for it) were so fantastic, and the youth I saw in 2008 ... well, I've shared that story before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Eagle92, The intent is to encourage Wood Badge trained adults to serve on NYLT staff and to encourage NYLT adult staff who have not taken Wood Badge to do so. Any adult can earn two, three or four beads with the appropriate training and service. To say that this program favors certain adult leaders over others is inaccurate. The prerequisite for those third and fourth beads is the same for and can be earned by every WB and NYLT staffer. In our council, every adult and youth NYTL staffer earn a staff pin for their NYLT shields. Is that nationally recognized or not? I don't know. If not, maybe it ought to be. If it is, is your problem really then that everyone isn't earning exactly the same recognition? Should they be? I don't think it's necessary nor detrimental to the program. I was a college student. Being a college student in and of itself is not a road block to taking Wood Badge. The financial and time contraints and solutions exist for everyone. It's all about learning and teaching leadership skils. If this program fulfills its intent, more adults and youth are reached and they learn additional skills to help serve their units. One thing our council did this past summer is have some experienced NYLT youth staffers teach some elements at our Wood Badge courses. This was received very favorabily by the Wood Badge participants. The intent was that those participants would take that experience back to their home units and encouraged their youth to take NYLT. No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Mark, First the stuffI agree with. Love the idea of the staff pin, but hatis a lcoal think to my knowledge. Would love for it be a national one. Also loke the idea of youth teaching soem WB classes. Heck I like the idea of having youth teaching some IOLS classes. For a variety of reasons. But won't post here becasue I don't want to hijack the thread. But my question is this: if you are going to recognize adult NYLT staffers with WB beads, then why not allow youth participants to be recognized with WB beads, since the implication is that the two courses are identical, and recognize those adults who staff the event with WB beads? After all they are teachign the WB course, and if staff trainings are like the ones I did, they are living the patrol method? Again I do not have a problem with recognizing folks for their hard work, BUT I do have a problem with recognizing SOME folks and not others. The implication I'm getting is "because I've done WB, I'm better than you," even though EVERYONE is busting butt and workign hard to make the NYLT course a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 FYI- When it was JLTC (Junior Leader Training Conference), they had a course at Philmont called NJLIC (National Junior Leader Instructor Camp), which was to prepare youth leaders of council JLTC course. It was hoped that councils would send their future JLTC SPLs to that course. When they replaced JLTC with NYLT (National Youth Leadership Training), the first year they replaced NJLIC with NYLIC. But after that first year they ended NYLIC, instead having NAYLE (National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience). NAYLE was NOT to replace NYLIC in terms of having a training event for NYLT youth staff, but a further leadership experience for youth who went thru NYLT (there have been articles in Scouting about this, as well as info on the National website explaining this). It seemed that the equivlanet to NYLIC was to be done at the Regional level, but am only aware of the NE region doing so, with their Youth Staff Development Course. But AFAIK, no other region has picked it up (go here for more info: http://www.nylt-ysdc.org/) We have course director conferences for WB, Powder Horn and Kodiak/Kodiak-X at the regional levels, so why not NYLT? Anyway. Regarding staff items. Other BSA events do staff items, such as special patches and belt buckles. I've received staff belt buckles for being staff at Jamboree and NOACs, and I believe I've seen NLS & NLATS staff given special buckles as well. I have also seen NLS & NLATS have special staff patches as well. Why National Supply can't produce a special NYLT staff patch and/or buckle, for purchase by councils to present to staff I have no idea. This would make it easy to provide such items and have them be official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Eagle92, You're forgetting the important prequisites: In order to earn your first bead, you have to complete the WB six day course. In order to earn your second bead, you have complete your ticket. In order to earn your third bead, you have to deliver the promise and train new leaders (I don't think it matters if they're adult or youth). In order to earn your fourth bead, you have to be a course director. Adults can't take the NYLT course. Youth can't take the WB course. At my NYLT course, a Wood Badger completed his ticket (serving on NYTL staff was his last ticket item) and had his beading ceremony. Five minutes later, he got his third bead for serving on NYLT staff. How weird is that? This isn't about recognition. It's about encouraging more WB trained leaders to deliver the promise (because we all know we learn the most about a topic by teaching it) and inspiring more adults to take the WB course. I mean how hard can it be? The adults serving NYLT aren't going to be very hard to convince about the benefits of taking WB. They're already living the dream, they just haven't taken the class. I think the hard part is finding an adult NYLT staffer that hasn't taken the course. For my NYLT course, there were about 20 adult staffers. Only myself and that one other staffer earned our third bead during the course, the CD earned his fourth bead, and only one adult had not taken WB but he was planning on it by the end of the week. No one else earned a third bead because everyone else already had them. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Mark, I understand why it's being done, to promote WB. but the problem I have is the lack of uniform recognition fro ALL staffers. Now in referecne to adults understanding and wanting to take WB, I agree BUT there is one caveat: the two courses are so similar that the NYLT staffer may be bored, or worse feel like they wasted their time and money. One of my youth staffers for JLT turned 18 shortly after JLT and signed up for WB. i go the chance to talk to him and the basically told me that I should save my time and money for when I need a refresher as the only difference between the two courses was the ticket. grant you this was the old BSLWB and JLT, but it appears that NYLT and WB21C are identical still, an appearance that is only solidified by the awarding of WB beads to NYLT adult staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I hope you don't mind my interrupting your discussion, but I have a question. Earlier posts said that there is no requirement to have any Philmont related training in order to staff NYLT. Our council program director insists that 2 scouts and one adult must attend some training (only offered at Philmont) in order for us to organize a course. Can anyone give me hard evidence one way or the other as to whether or not this is required? We have never had a course here, and I really want to see that we bring a course here, even if it takes several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle77 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 As posted earlier the training was supposed to be done as a regional type training. We are in the Northeast Region. I had one boy in our troop that had to go to the regional training that we have for WB and for NYLT staff and course directors. Maybe you need to see what your region is doing about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkUH60 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 where on the BSA web page is the official info on 3rd and 4th beads for NYLT staffers? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 here are some links doign a quick search. http://scouting.org/filestore/regions/centra/PDF/NYLT_Applications_Guidelines_Contacts.pdf http://training.nsbsa.org/uploadedFiles/file/WoodBadge/WB2011-CDApplication.pdf http://www.stcbsa.org/pdfs/2012WoodBadgeStaffApplication.pdf http://nylt.monmouthbsa.com/staff/docs/syllabus/01-Staff%20Guide.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPT00 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 *** Good luck on this one. The only mention in previous posts in this thread regarding a 4th bead for NYLT was for a course director. You sure won't see that written anywhere. While we're at it, let's see something written regarding a 3rd or 4th bead for the Philmont Challenge. BDPT00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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