Wood Badge beads for NYLT staff

[John-in-KC]

You really want my thought? They get their 3d bead for WB staff. Period.

 

NYLT service does not equal Wood Badge service. Period.

 

Give them a belt buckle for having staffed NYLT.

 

Remember, you asked.

[fleetfootedfox]

No offense intended, but I think some of you are taking the beads way too seriously. There was really nothing special about those little beads before B-P gave them out other than their unique shape. If he had given out little red glass beads instead and told some story about how he got them from Geronimo, that's what we'd be using today.

 

We give beads to cub scouts when they complete achievements, and they get more beads than we do for completing Wood Badge. Why be so stingy with the beads? Maybe we should give out a bead for each ticket completed.

 

Also, I don't see any real problem with Wood Badge changing with the times, as it has many times. Maybe we should get rid of the beads and replace them with a knot.

[Eagle92]

I have to agree with John, give them something different. The woodbadge beads have ameaning and history behind them, I don't think it should be diluted.

 

Also what about the YOUTH who are going through the course, shouldn't they receive something special besides a temp patch? What about the YOUTH staff shouldn't they also get something special for staffing? What about other adult staff, some who may have gone through the course as a youth, others who haven't gone through WB yet, shouldn't they also be recognized?

 

As I said before, if you are goign to recognize one group, you should recognize all groups. the arguement for the beads is that the courses are nearly identical. So if that's the case shouldn't the youth get beads? Shouldn't the all staff get beads sicne they are doing what the WB staff are doing?

 

John,

They have a NYLT buckle?

[emb021]

"They have a NYLT buckle?"

 

Yes. The number I have for it is #14203.

 

However, I think for this purpose you'd need to have a special staff belt buckle.

 

Its not uncommon to do so. When I first started to staff Jamborees, that was pretty much the only staff recognition I got. And I think they do staff buckles for NLS/NLATS (or did).

 

 

 

[eagle1977]

"Also what about the YOUTH who are going through the course, shouldn't they receive something special besides a temp patch?"

 

Are they not getting training from this experience? Is that not the purpose of the whole event in the first place? Should they not be carrying that back to their respective troops with them to share with their fellow Scouts?

 

There is entirely too much emphasis placed on the awarding of "beads", "smokey bear hats" or "whatever" to set one person apart from others in the BSA. Scouting should be a classless organization of brother Scouts (or Arrowmen, or Venturers, or Sea Scouts.)

 

There have been different requirements for all aspects of Scouting from the very beginning. All the rank structures have changed over the years and some merit badges have been phased out while new ones have been added. I earned the camping merit badge when it was not a required badge. Does this mean my Eagle is of less value than others? I personally don't think so. Why should we teach Morse code to Scouts today when there are very few people that would know how to respond to it in an emergency?

 

Wood Badge has changed and adapted to as has been pointed out on this thread. We really need to put the focus back where it belongs. . . on the SCOUTS. If that means eliminating all square knots for adults I will take mine off first. Funny, though, mine are all youth related anyway!

[John-in-KC]

Last week at a Scout Camp campfire I dressed out. Full Venturing field uniform, to include my necker and beads, and the belt I hand tooled at PTC last year. BTW, they have a PTC and a PTC staff belt buckle now. You can only get the staff belt buckle by being staff.

 

Most of the time, I'm more than content to have much less on... perhaps little more than a working activity uniform (see folks, I do know the correct term for Class B ).

 

So, my question is this: Since when has JLT or NYLT been part of WB? Hmmmmmm?

 

During my week at PTC, there was this guy from Texas with his 1 ton mobile Scout Museum truck. He is the penultimate patch collector. Maybe it's time we dump all the special patches and go to a plain uniform with just the khaki/green emblems. No knots, no beads, no nothing.

 

Why do we have advancement in Cub and Boy Scouting, and Recognition in Venturing? It's because physical symbols are motivators. I don't know about you, but I'm not at Maslow's self-actualization level. The baubles and bangles help.

 

It also helps when I know that a bauble means "been there, done that" in a very uniform way. That's the issue. Working with a bunch of jaded and experienced adults is fully different than working with Rush's "minds full of mush", who will do what you tell them to do ... because they're still at the point of no backtalk to an adult (trust me, after The Game of Life, the CD got his full ration of backtalk from us).

 

To me, it comes down to this: If we're so short NYLT adult staff that it takes adding a WB bead to the mix, then something is gut-check wrong with how the sylabbus and how National intends it be supported. It's a bribe in a different recognition system, no more, no less.

[ideadoc]

I believe there are two issues here that should be addressed separately.

 

First, I personally think that NYLT recognition should be unique from Wood Badge recognition, and should include youth staff. If the Boy Scouts of America decides that beads are the adult recognition for NYLT (and I believe we are talking about 3rd and 4th beads, not getting beads if you have never completed a Wood Badge ticket) then that is thier decision. There are many BSA decisions that I personally do not agree with, but rather than disregard them I believe we should work to change them.

 

The second issue and the one that I find more bothersome is the comparison being made to the "effort" or "worthiness" of an adult volunteer staffing Wood Badge vs. NYLT. As someone who has had the opportunity to serve on multiple NYLT courses, as well as on a Wood Badge staff, I firmly reject the notion that NYLT is a cake walk compared to Wood Badge. In my experience the time committment was greater, the need to stay focused throughout the entire course (which was a solid week compared to the majority of weekend format Wood Badge courses)and the challenges of working with youth compared to adults (ever had an adult participant suffering from homesickness? How about behavior issues - I like to say that if there is a behavior problem at NYLT we call the Scoutmaster and parents, if there is a behavior problem at Wood Badge we call the sheriff!) makes NYLT staffing just as much work, requires as much or more experience with scouting and dedication to the true purpose of the course as Wood Badge does. If in your experience you found NYLT staffing to be easy then perhaps you should ask yourself if you were expending the effort that is truly required to do a quality job.

 

Agree or disagree with the decision to award beads to NYLT adults. Agree or disagree with the decision to "ban" local course names. But please do not insinuate that NYLT adult volunteers are somehow less "worthy" than Wood Badge volunteers.

[GernBlansten]

Opinion from a non-WBadger and father of a son who is staffing NYLT this week as a youth.

 

I haven't done WB because I'd rather spend my time with the youth and most of what I've heard is presented in WB I've already been through in my career.

 

WB, from the outsider, seems more like an exclusive club of scouters who think poorly of non-WB volunteers.

 

1st and foremost, the program is for the youth.

 

I think that one of the items to get your initial WB beads should be staffing NYLT as an adult. Take what you learned from WB, and give back to the youth. That should be first and foremost from WB. This in addition to the other ticket items you have from WB.

 

This would do two things,

1) demonstrate your dedication to the program (the youth).

2) create an endless supply of trained instructors for NYLT.

[BDPT00]

OK, so let me try again...

I'm wondering if anyone has presented beads yet. How was it done, and in front of whom?

I'm seeking suggestions.

It's interesting. Last year, most of the comments were favorable. Now that the time is here, there are negative feelings about it. The comments so far seem to state that beads are the wrong recognition item, or that any recognition at all is just fluff, so who cares? I dismiss comments from non-Wood Badgers. There's no vested interest in beads (and dare I say not enough concern to get fully trained?), and therefore no real understanding of their significance or tradition.

At any rate, my question has to do with ceremony. There's always some sort of ceremony when presenting beads. How would you handle presenting beads for NYLT?

Thanks, BDPT00

 

[GernBlansten]

Yeah, I see a lot of WBadgers dismiss everything from non-WBadgers. Elitism.

[John-in-KC]

If there was a thread Kudu would be on point in, this is it.

 

I've been consistent for a year: This is a bad idea. Of course, after observing a bunch of uncontrolled NAYLE youth at PTC last summer, I'm not sure we should not abandon NYLT and go back to JLT and Brownsea 22 curricula.

[Eagle92]

BDPT,

Would you listen to my opinion if I told you that I went through the predecessors of NYLT, i.e. Brownsea 22 and staffed JLT ? As I stated numerous times, if there is a recognition to be given for staffing NYLT, it needs to be a nationally recognized item that is awarded for both youth and adult staff for the course, irregardless of whether the adult is WB trained or not. Soemthign specific to that course. If you are awarding a NYLT staff recognition only to WBers, what are the other staffers to think?

 

Yes the courses are very similar, so similar in fact that I was advised by some WBers to wait a while to take WB since it is 99% to the JLT I staffed. And that is how national intended it to be. I also do not discredit the time commitment or challenges that NYLT staff. yes you do have some scouts mouthing back at ya, but you also haev other challenges (never, ever eat with a patrol that put youpine [sp] berries in the food;) )

 

Again I think that if a recognition is to be given, it should be given to ALL staffers, especially the youth.

[Kudu]

If there was a thread Kudu would be on point in, this is it.

 

We renamed "corporate manager skills" to "Wood Badge" to encourage people with no interest in the Boy Scout program to learn those valuable business manger skills.

 

NYLT teaches the same corporate manager skills.

 

The solution is obvious!

 

Simply rename "NYLT" to "Wood Badge."

 

That solves the problem of awarding Wood Badge Beads to participants in a course that is not named "Wood Badge."

 

Kudu

[desertrat77]

As a non-WBer, I realize how utterly unworthy I am to comment on anything related to the WB program. And I'm doubly unqualified to comment on WB beads.

 

But what the heck, I'll give it a go.

 

According to many WBers, they alone possess Superior Dedication to the Scouting Movement.

 

Bead wearers gained their status at great cost, so it just follows that the rest of us mortals are half steppers and not fully on board with being Good Scouters.

 

So how dare NYLT adult staffers--clearly their accomplishments are but filthy rags compared to WB staffers--don a third or fourth bead? Why, it detracts from the whole WB prestige machine!

 

Please. The superiority of WB--in any aspect--is only evidenced by the personal claims of the WBers themselves.

 

In 1975, I recall my SM receiving his WB beads at our troop court of honor. The old time scouter who presented them said that the original beads came a tribal necklace that BP had in his kit bag, and the idea of giving them out to scouters came at the last minute before camp broke, as a token of what had taken place at camp.

 

(Historical aside: I don't recall any mention of BP requiring the Mysterious Ticket at this encampment before the scouters could claim their bead!)

 

So as a Tenderfoot I understood the legacy. Sad that this legacy has turned into the ultimate secret handshake.

 

Fuel for the fire: the NYLT staff teaches youth. This whole scouting program, as I understand it with my feeble non-WB educated brain, is about youth. I'd say NYLT staffers are more dedicated to scouting than the WB staff, who teach other scouters. Let NYLT staffers have first claim to the beads.

 

(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[GernBlansten]

Desertrat,

I've saved a seat on the back of the Scouter Express for you. Know any critter songs?