Wood Badge beads for NYLT staff

[Vicki]

But David, the way I read it, it says NYLT Scoutmaster, not Course Director. In our council at least, I would agree with you completely - we put up to 200 scouts per week (three troops in camp plus a high-adventure version) four times per summer. Those four CD's absolutely put in hours and hours of blood, sweat and tears. The individual troop SM? Not so much.

 

But I would still advocate a separate recognition system.

 

Or, revolutionary thought, do away with adult recognition altogether.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[emb021]

AFAIK, the NYLT Scoutmaster IS Course Director!

 

The idea is you have ONE NYLT course with ONE NYLT Troop. The NYLT CD serves as the Scoutmaster, same as the Wood Badge Course Director is the WB Scoutmaster.

 

 

[Bob White]

We get it Vickie, you don't like it. But you have yet to explain how this additional use of the beads negatively affects ANYONE.

 

Do you have three or four beads? If so how does this effect you in any way? How does it diminish your recognition in ANY way?

 

It's fine to have an opinion but it should have some basis is logic or knowledge.

 

If this additional use harms anything or anyone at all please tell us who and how.

[Vicki]

No, Bob, you're the one not getting it - your questions are not relevant to my point, nor are you making any effort to understand my point. I will not be drawn down your rabbithole. Done.

 

Emb, hmmm, I knew I was in a big, active council. I am only now beginning to appreciate how big. Our NYLT structure is one CD per course and four scoutmasters, four ASMs, QM corps, and commissioner. Over a summer, that's four CDs and 16 scoutmasters. The CD is responsible for recruiting SMs and ASMs for their course and there is another individual responsible (w/the CD) for recruiting youth staff, which is ideally an SPL and three TGs per troop - 16 per week, 64 per summer.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[Bob White]

Dancin Fox I agree with you. As a scouter with three beads frm serving on Wood Badge I have no problem with someone on NYLT or NAYLE who meet the new requirements from receiving the same recognition.

 

The courses have similar content and purpose and the task is just as challenging.

 

For folks to say that this is a "serious mistake", but not be able to say what that mistake is, shows how holow the rants over this actually are.

 

Congraulations on your selection, and thanks for your service, to anyone who serves well on any of these courses, you have all earned you beads.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Vicki]

(Grin) I'm off to take some scouts camping this weekend - beautiful weather here in the great U.S. flyover.

 

Have a good one, all!

 

Vicki

[Eagle92]

Ok I am going to extapolate this one. If certain staff members are entitled to get the three and four Woodbadge beads, why not all staff? And while we are at it, if WB and NYLT are nearly identical, why don't we let the youth wear the beads? After all they are completing nearly identical training and their leaders are getting extra beads? Forget my Smokey Bear that I was awarded way back when, I want my beads! LOL

 

Seriously though, it's two separate programs, there needs to be two separate recognitions.

 

Also has Gilwell had any say in this? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Gilwell Park is the actual entity that awards the WB beads via the individual national organizations. That's why I knew about WB changing back in 1995, when I was asked to be a guinea pig for the new program they were testing out at Gilwell when I was on that side of the pond. Tough choice: World ScoutJamboree or WB. I chose WSJ

 

 

[Bob White]

I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

 

"If certain staff members are entitled to get the three and four Woodbadge beads, why not all staff?"

 

Because not all the staff are eligible as determined by the BSA training committee. The same is true of the Wood Badge Course, not all staff memebers get a third bead.

 

"And while we are at it, if WB and NYLT are nearly identical, why don't we let the youth wear the beads? After all they are completing nearly identical training and their leaders are getting extra beads?"

 

Because the Training Committee which is responsible for determining how the beads are used in this country have at this point in time determined that the beads are for adult staff recognition.

 

"Forget my Smokey Bear that I was awarded way back when, I want my beads! LOL"

 

I agree, forget your Smokey Bear hat. It was a gift and not a BSA training recognition. Anyone can wear a campaign hat regardless of what training or staff experience they have.

 

Seriously though, it's two separate programs, there needs to be two separate recognitions."

 

Actually it is the same program, but three separate training courses.

 

"Also has Gilwell had any say in this?"

No.

 

"Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Gilwell Park is the actual entity that awards the WB beads via the individual national organizations."

 

Not correct. The UK Scout Asssociation is one source, it is not the only source.

 

That's why I knew about WB changing back in 1995, when I was asked to be a guinea pig for the new program they were testing out at Gilwell when I was on that side of the pond.

 

The rewrite of Wood Badge happened here in 1999 was field tested in late 1999 and early 2000.

 

The course you attended there may have been the UK's new Wood Badge course but it is unrelated to the BSA Wood Badge for the 21st Century course. In any case there are all kinds of different national Wood Badge Courses held world wide. They do not all use the same syllabus and they do not all have the same structure. The onle real common element is that they are all the advanced leadership course for that country's Scouting program.

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[BadenP]

Geesshhh now BW was the test subject for the new Wood Badge at Gilwell, another lie BW I doubt you would have been asked to test anything by the UK Scouts, let alone Gilwell, you keep digging yourself in deeper and deeper. No credibility whatsoever. I really hope the rest of you aren't buying this load of BW BS.

[Bob White]

Your words not mine BadenP, I never said I was in a test course just that I know when the material was developed and when the pilots were done. It was Eagle 92 who said he was the "guinea pig" not me. Your insults are misdirected.

 

It is unfortunate that you continue to use personal insults rather than just discuss the topics.

[SSScout]

Vicki has a valid observation. So does BW. And so they may never come to a meeting of the minds.

If I see a Scout that wears a First Class badge, I think " yep, First Class Scout. I earned First Class umpteen years ago". But then I realize that MY First Class is different, not quite the same as his First Class. I learned Morse Code, among other things, he didn't. Both First Class, but different. Who defined the standards to be met? Who certified that the young Scout then and now knows his stuff, and met the standard? National/Irving is / was different, from National/New Brunswick. Different but sort of the same.

One of my WB tickets is the creation of an activity whereby Scouts will do some things and earn a patch for their trouble (Bumper sticker: "WILL WORK FOR COLORFUL SCRAPS OF CLOTH"). In this case, I define the requirements. Someday in the future, if, as I hope, my activity becomes a regular affair of the District, someone else may take over the organization of it. Then he/she may change the requirements to suit the new times (instead of "plan your hike..." maybe "charge your levipad..."?).

A BW notes, the folks that "own" the award define the rquirements to earn it. AND if I may paraphrase Vicki's observation, if the standards of the award are changed (broadened?), the older holders of the award may wonder if THAT award means the same as it DID.

Is my First Class the "same" as the modern Scout's? No. Different requirements. Is it "comparable"? Oh yes, I've little doubt. Why the changes ? Changing times. I have had discussions with son and other Scouts. They don't see the need to learn Morse Code (example). Could they benefit from learning Morse Code? Undoubtedly, but why teach/learn it? not my place to decide that. But we really should note our concerns to National.

Changing times.

 

Oh btw, anyone TRIED to contact National lately?

 

YiS

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I contacted National last week, in what way do you mean?

[Eagle92]

Couple of things to clarify before my discussion this week.

 

1) BW did not say he was in a test program. NOR DID I. I said I was given the opportunity to. From what I heard about the then trial program at Gilwell, I said "that ain't real WB" and told my warden I'ld rather go to the WSJ and take the real WB course when I went back home.

 

2) I have not gone through WB yet, either the original course or the WB21C. Unfortunately due to school and work schedules, I was unable to take any course. Doubtful I will be able to take for until about 4-5 yrs down the road due, again due to work. UNLESS they still offer CEUs, then then I may not only be able to take the course, but get work to pay for it - It's long shot, but I'll try it.

 

 

Now I had the opportunity to talk to a few WB staff folk this weekend at an Ordeal and get their opinions. Basically they see no problem with it. While it shocked me, their reasoning is that both course use the the same basic material, so they see no problem with it. I mentioned what about the staff who don't qualify for beads, and they said it may be an incentive for them to go through WB.

[Bob White]

Eagle92 writes"I have not gone through WB yet, either the original course or the WB21C."

 

A side note Eagle92, you are probably not old enoght to have gone through the "original" course, or even through the second, third or fourth version of Wood Badge in the US.

 

The last version prior to this current one was not the orignal or even an early version, it was simply the last before this version and this is not the last version that there will ever be.

 

Everything changes.

[mason11031]

I feel as if this topic has gotten away from the idea that this is a program for the youth. Keep in mind that everything we do should be weighed with this question, "does this positively or negatively affect the youth I serve?" That having been said, I think that worrying about ADULT recognition (which I feel has proliferated beyond necessity as of late) does not ultimately serve our purpose of fulfilling the promise to boys. We should, instead, focus more of our time and effort into providing the highest quality program for the youth, this argument is only a distraction from that goal. We should be thinking about how to recognize our youth more rather than coming up with more ways to honor adults or arguing about how or which adults to recognize. Just my two-cents... But then again, I was a youth just a couple years ago, perhaps I am biased.