Mandatory Training

[John-in-KC]

My random thought is there's something deeper behind the proposal. Wonder if the council settled a lawsuit recently? Could this be the Executive Board's path to solving a due diligence challenge for the future?

 

Whatever's there, there's a reason the Council is shifting to this model... since I'm not in it, I don't know it, but someone local should do some digging.

[DPWatson]

We have 46 troops in the local district. A spreadsheet was distributed last week that showed 53% of the scoutmasters as "untrained". I'm in my third year of the job, and have relied on OJT so far. Certainly not optimal, but that's the way it is. My predecessor, who was SM for 5 years and a CM for several years before that was never "trained". Perhaps some culture change is required, but I wonder whether a "zero tolerance" policy from above will solve the problem.

 

/dpw

 

[Eagle92]

2CubDad,

Yes most training is on weekends, and that's because the trainers are also volunteers who work jobs during the week. But there are ways to get training during the week, especially if there is a group of you. I know alot of summer camps offers SM and ASM Specific training during summer camp. Also I had a CS trainer who would do weekday nite training for specific units. Usually a pack would make are the arrangements, the trainer get the staff together, and the class wouldbe for that unit with anyone needing training being invited. This worked out great for some folks.

 

[nldscout]

I am in the came council as CNYSCOUTER. The problem the council ran into was when they studied charters, they discovered that they would lose 40% or more of the units if they enforced the rule they wrote that said no training, no charter.

 

Anyone know of a council thats prepared to do that?

[Twocubdad]

Clearly, Eagle92. But if you are a customer-driven organization, you're going to meet the customers where they are. Twenty years ago who ever heard of a bank open on Saturdays or a dentist scheduling appoints at 7pm?

 

Our training committee says they offer one-off and oddly-scheduled training, but it's a BIG DEAL to get them to do it. They are pretty good about offering Troop Committee training for an individual troop, if the whole committee is willing to do it.

 

Our council tried offering SM/ASM training over three week nights which I helped teach. It was difficult. The logistics of getting to training from all over the council on a week night during rush-hour traffic was difficult (the training site was an hour from my house.) They used a different set of instructors each session so consistency was an issue. I didn't feel like the syllabus was conducive to being broken into sessions like that. I think it would be helpful if national offered an alternate, the way Wood Badge can be run as a five-day week or two three-day weekend.

 

I also think they could increase Cub training if the courses were reorganized in to a six-hour Cub Leader Basic (like they used to have) the then two-hour modules for program specific training. The first six hours of all the position-specific courses are pretty much the same already.

 

Of course, national hasn't asked my opinion.

[BadenP]

This issue was discussed on another thread a couple of months ago in great detail. I am pretty sure this is a mandate coming down from National as part of the new reorganization plan of Mazzuca. With the ever increasing numbers of lawsuits filed against the BSA for neglience and safety issues, like the troop that started that fire in a National park, those killed by lightning at the Jambo as well as other events, etc. I think National feels these types of occurences will significantly decrease, as will the lawsuits, if all volunteers are properly and fully trained. Look for new standards in the exsisting training policies and curriculum as well.

[RangerT]

My council now has a mandatory training program in place and if the leaders are not all trained we have been warned that our charter at the end of the year will not be renewed.

 

Why I agree with the idea in principal the methodology of using threats and intimidation to make it happen I feel is very unprofessional. I still want to know if this is a requirement from National to all councils or is it some SE's trying to impose their will on the volunteers. How many charters will they lose this year because of this new requirement?

[OldGreyEagle]

I am a member of Minsi Trails Council, centered in Allentown PA with some of New Jersey. We have required training for all contact leaders for some time now, 5 or more years I think. You have to have an active Training Committee, heck, the Scoutmaster of the Troop I serve is the Council Training Chair and you have to have strong District training Chairs with dedicated scouters to serve as trainers and each district offers each training componenet once a year. Scheduled every 2 months apart most training is offered somewhere bimonthly.

 

Units not complying are dropped, pure and simple and with a culture of training is good, people accept they need to be trained. Its hard to deliver a promise when you dont know what it is

[John-in-KC]

RangerT,

 

SFAIK (since my Council does not have mandatory training), this is something being done by individual Councils.

 

Remember, for the SE to make this happen, he has to have buy-in from his Executive Board. That isn't the easiest thing in the world. He also has to have enough support from volunteer trainers.

[evmori]

Maybe training should be mandatory for the main people in the unit. For troops, the SM, all ASM's & CC. For packs, the CM, all DL's the ACM & the CC.

[John-in-KC]

Here's a simpler way than de-chartering units:

 

- Training is an explicit condition of membership.

- Training (FS, YP, NLE, and leader specific for registered position) must be complete before next recharter after joining (waived for last 60 days of charter year)

- Training for changed positions, either by app or recharter, must be complete before next renewal.

 

The responsibility shifts to the individual.

[Apache Bob]

I am for training and am trained for the positions I fill.

My council came out with the 100% training several years ago but when they started looking at the ScoutNet training records they were in for a big suprise. A lot of them were not trained per the computer. When backed into a corner they finally gave a figure of about 45% were trained they think.

I talked to our District Training person 4 years ago and told him that if he would give the info on a persons training I would build a spreadsheet of the status of every person in the District. To date - nothing. They are now debating whether to accept a person's word (A Scout is Trustworthy) that they received training for a position.

They have an excellent staff and from Sep through June do a complete traing program every two months. Wood Badge each spring.

They talked about not recharting units without 100% trained leaders until they realized they would not recharter about 75% to 80% of the units.

 

[NeilLup]

For heaven's sake, people, let's wake up, smell the coffee and lose the conspiracy theories

 

I believe that we all believe that having a competent leader in Scouting who knows his or her job is a good idea. OK so far?

 

I believe that almost all of us -- some exceptions -- believe that training helps the leader to learn their job and understand better what and how to do that good job. Still OK?

 

I believe that almost all of us believe that our child in Scouting should have a good leader who is competent and knows how to do a good job and is trained. Still OK?

 

I believe that most of us know people who are willing to become Scout leaders but are "too busy" to become trained and learn how to do the job well and right. Agree with me there?

 

So these "mandatory training" provisions simply state that if someone is going to be a direct contact leader in Scouting dealing with youth, they should have the minimal training necessary to know what that job is and to have the basic information of how to do it.

 

This is not a provision to decertify leaders or not reregister units. The mandatory training provisions are being proposed for one reason. We believe that Scouts have better Scouting and units are better units if the leaders are trained and "voluntary" training isn't getting enough people to become trained.

 

Personally, I am very comfortable saying to someone who says that they don't have the time to become trained "I understand that you are very busy. Regrettably, what you are saying is that you are too busy now to be a Scout leader. We appreciate that and when you believe that you have the time to learn how to do the job, you will again consider being a Scout leader."

 

But at the same time, I have been very reluctant to support mandatory training in our council until our Council Training Committee and other committees have been totally committed to providing training when and as leaders need it. It can no longer be a matter of holding Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills once a year with 5 people present and saying that the job is being done. Mandatory training places as much or more obligation on the training committee as it does on the direct contact leaders.

 

With on-line training and other training methods, there really is no reason that someone who cares about Scouting cannot get the minimum training for their position quite quickly.

 

I completely concur about training records. Accurate records needs to be an essential part of "mandatory training" as do reasonable waiver provisions for people like 18 year old ASMs who are at college and only come home for the summer months.

 

But that can be handled. The thing to get bothered about is not the exception. Rather, it is the large number of parents or other adults who say "I don't have the time to get trained"and the Training Committees who say "We held the training course (once a year at a time of our convenience). It's not our problem if nobody came." If we are going to provide quality Scouting, those has to be unacceptable.(This message has been edited by NeilLup)

[Docrwm]

Its a bit of a stretch for Councils and National to require 100% trained if their own records are in such incredibly poor shape. The most important conclusion that I draw from the posts here is to keep ALL my training cards, scan them in so I have an electronic back-up, and have them with me in situations where they may be needed and/or required.

 

For those in areas where this standard is to be applied for recharter - perhaps you should present copies of all signed training cards for each registered leader as an attachment to your recharter packet - just in case....

(This message has been edited by docrwm)

[Eagle732]

I'm in the same council as DPWatson. At our district's Roundtable last night this was discussed. This is apparently a 4 year phase in with Scoutmaster, Cubmaster and Crew Advisors mandatory this year for recharter (recharter is due in Dec. only 3 months away!) 2nd year all Committee Chairpersons, 3rd year all direct contact leaders over 21, 4th year 18 -21 y.o. Assistant SMs. Here's the problem which was brought up at roundtable, one needs the Individual Leadership Outdoors Skills (ILOS) weekend course to be "trained" as a Scoutmaster, ASM or Crew Advisor but our district only offers it once a year in April. The same with the Scoutmaster Fundamentals, only offered once a year. The answer we got to that one was go to another district! I'm wondering what happens when a SM quits a unit in say July and the guy willing to take his place needs to come up with all this training in short order. Do you think council will not recharter? We'll see.