Win all U can thread

[Gold Winger]

"You guys are all engineering and business majors, right? Did you never take a literature class?"

 

Not engineering but the mother of science and I took many literature classes. What I learned in those classes was that the key to survival was to suss out what the instructor thought and then parrot it in your papers so the instructor could strut and preen because everyone validated his beliefs. Free and independent thought is not welcomed by "academics" . . . . okay, it is welcomed if it agrees with their free and independent thought.

[diogenes]

I figured out the intention of the game early in. I realized that due to the actions of other patrols, we weren't going to achieve the best outcome, so I decided to help drive home the point of the game by doing a controlled push for what one of the staffers discribed as "the worst score ever". It really knocked the lesson home for everyone, though my patrol did have to do a bit of fence mending afterwards. Even that was a good lesson, as it helped everyone understand how the boys feelings can be hurt easily, especially when fatigue is involved.

 

I think the game works best if you let people discover the lesson on their own instead of telling them the point ahead of time.

[Bob White]

I understand the temptation to mess with the game, but it's unfortunate you that you chose that path, it easily can obscure the lesson.

[NeilLup]

MacScouter,

 

I find your comments extremely interesting. I strongly suggest that you share them with the National Wood Badge Task force particularly if you have other games which could accomplish the objective without the negative risks and consequences. I know that there is far from unanimous opinion on the National Wood Badge task force about the Game of Life.

 

By the way, you have precisely outlined the purpose of the Game of Life and the time when it is conducted as I have heard it described by the Chairman of the National Wood Badge task force and other members of the National Wood Badge Design Team. I know that other posters on this thread have expressed disagreement, but as I understand matters, you are precisely and exactly correct.

[Bob White]

I respectfully disagree with Neil, The game of Life/Win all U can is not about causing conflict. And while aspects of the stagesof group dynamics are visible in the game, You can see aspects of group dynamics in almost every aspect of the Wood Badge course as it progresses.

 

The lesson of the the Game of Life is much different than what MacScouter believed it was.

[evmori]

The lesson of the the Game of Life is much different than what MacScouter believed it was.

 

Then what is the lesson?

[Lisabob]

One of the things I've discovered over the years as a teacher is that sometimes there is not "a lesson" to be learned from an experience, but rather, multiple lessons. Different people will take away different things from role playing and other experiential learning, based on their personalities, backgrounds, and also the roles they played in the game. Sometimes this is actually a benefit, especially when talking about complex psychological phenomena like group dynamics. But yes, occasionally students take away a very different lesson than was intended. When that happens, as (I think) is often the case with the game in question here, good teachers and leaders need to do two things.

 

First, they need to make sure they have an adequate and effective de-briefing with participants. This will serve to uncover unintended "lessons" that the teacher otherwise might not even know had been "learned." It also allows for some shaping and framing of the experience to occur, and often puts those "errant" lessons in a different light for the participants. In the event that some people took a truly divergent set of lessons from an activity, a good follow-up debriefing can result in participants being brought back together onto the same intellectual (and sometimes emotional) footing again.

 

Second, teachers need to re-evaluate the structure of the activity and how it was presented. Perhaps there is a flaw in one or both of these that made it more likely that some participants would pick up unintentional and even undesirable lessons.

 

Certainly many WB staffers understand and are capable of the above. Some probably are not. Either way, simply to assert that there is only one lesson to be taken from any dynamic exercise such as this game, and that people who take away a different lesson are wrong or didn't understand or whatever, is not grounded in solid pedagogy.

[fleetfootedfox]

The game is an embarrassment which detracts from the overall experience for some people. It should be exposed and eliminated.

[Bob White]

Scouter760

There is nothing to "expose". This excercise has been in the Wood Badge course since it's release and has been played hundreds of times now.

 

The element in some people that causes whatever conflict may take place came to the course with those particular people, it was not created by the game.

 

 

 

[Docrwm]

I'm probably going to make more friends with my comments here but.....

 

A big problem with secrecy or "in group" information is that one defense by the "in group" is to claim that only those who have gone through what they did can truly have an opinion on the ordeal/process/event/experience. Sorry but that is complete nonsense. Like I have told my Cubs - you don't have to jump off a cliff to know it hurts a lot at the end and its stupid under nearly all circumstances.

 

My problem with ALL this is that BSA has a VERY specific rule about no secrecy. I keep seeing it broken in regards to OA and WB. Makes me wonder as a relatively new BSA Volunteer..........

[Bob White]

There is no secrecy to this, Nothing in the BSA or in the Wood Badge training syllabus says that you have to keep anything secret.

 

The lesson of the game can be taught without the game only not as effectively. If you want someone to teach you all the Wood Badge Skills, I would be happy to do it. When I have done this at a corporate level we charged $1200 per person for the 16 hour course. If you want to PM me I will send you the address where to send the check to

 

Or if you want to PM me and discuss the game off-line I would be happy to do that for free.

 

The only reason we are dancing around the topic here is that a monderator has made it clear that he will close the thread if we discuss the game itself. This is his personal choice and he has the authority to make that decision on this forum.

 

So in keeping within his rules I will not discuss details on this forum.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[OldGreyEagle]

I am the Moderator who doesn't want the specifics of the "Win All You Can" game because of the number of PM's I received asking me to delete a thread that did deal with the specifics of the game.

 

My take on the game is that it was petty and stupid and a definite low point in the course. It may be that the Staff didnt present it correctly but any activity that ends with a patrol ready to go home and has the Course Director pinned up against the wall facing angry participants requires at least a tad bit of tweaking.

[Docrwm]

BW,

 

Thanks. It is secrecy and thats all there is too it. Sadly, I am seeing more of it the more I get involved in BSA beyond my District. Its why I stopped posting to or even reading the OA threads. So far, thank G*d, I haven't run in to it locally.

 

When I ask a reasonable question about a course I am to take and I get either double-talk or evasive answers I pass on it. I do that as a professional and now, unfortunately, as a Volunteer.

 

As for the content. Been a manager, been a professor, am a Clinical Psychologist who has taught conflict resolution, active listening, and mentorship and who has been paid way more than $1200/day to teach those things. NONE of it is a secret. No game should be pivotal to what you are teaching - it should be one tool out of many for the same concepts. If that game routinely results in the reactions that I have read here on, literally, dozens of posts then its a bad idea - period.

 

My thoughts, my opinions, and yes, as someone who was never any kind of animal......

 

YIS,

 

-Robert(This message has been edited by docrwm)(This message has been edited by docrwm)

[fleetfootedfox]

It is offensive without being secret because it upsets people. If I do something that I know in advance is going to offend or upset a certain percentage of people, I cannot say it is their fault just because another group of people aren't bothered by it. I could stand up in front of a group and tell dirty jokes. Lots of people won't be bothered by that, but that doesn't mean that I don't have any responsibility to the people who I know will be offended.

[BeaverIII]

OGE wrote

"...because of the number of PM's I received asking me to delete a thread that did deal with the specifics of the game."

 

What diffrence does it make? One can Google "Win All You Can" and come up with the specifics of the game. If a thread can be deleted because others don't want to see it discussed than this ceases to be a forum where ideas, opinions and information may be discussed freely and openly.

 

Wally Hymel