Win all U can thread

[John-in-KC]

Wally,

 

The trick is this: Putting Win All U Can in here clearly associates the activity with the curriculum.

 

I have to wonder how many WB learners are so Type A they'd go and find the curriculum online?

 

Lisa... I fully endorse what you said. WAUC may have a curriculum desired outcome, but it is a game that can have multiple unintended lessons and consequences. I wonder what an adult educational psychologist would say about it in a professional journal?

[Bob White]

Doc,

How do you see this as secretive? The BSA does not say that it cannot be talked about, and there are lots of people willing to discuss it? how then could it possibly be secretive?

 

OGE's decision not to allow it on the forum is personal choice that he feels is a the resonable decision for the forum and he has been given the responsibility and authorioty to make that decision. But neither the forum nor OGE speak for the BSA but only for this forum.

 

 

Please explain how you see this as being secretive in the BSA.

 

PS

The name of the game is "The Game of Life" the goal of the game is to 'win all you can'.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Docrwm]

Bob White,

 

I was referring to the pattern of behavior across multiple posters regarding keeping the information hidden. Many have argued that it should not be talked about, that is a form of secrecy. As for the actions of the moderator - I respect his personal decision and am in no way challenging his right to decide as mod what is, and is not, allowed to be posted.

 

My point is broader. From my reads here on this topic and in the OA area it seems clear as crystal to me that many still cling to ideas about how things should be instead of abiding by BSA policy on how they are regarding secrecy. Its the impression I have drawn from reading hundreds of threads here.

 

-Robert

[evmori]

Just Google "The Game of Life" or "Win All You Can" and you will find it! I question why there needs to be games like this in the 1st place?

[Docrwm]

Evmori wrote:

"Just Google "The Game of Life" or "Win All You Can" and you will find it! I question why there needs to be games like this in the 1st place?"

 

The point isn't that the information is not available online but rather that apparently many associated with WB seem to think that keeping things private, avoiding answering direct questions about the nature and content of the training, etc. is just fine. Yes, I can find out about TGofL online, but then if I've asked a polite and direct question of another scouter about what goes on at WB I really shouldn't have to then go to Google to find out the truth, now should I?

 

On your second point - I've read loads of posts that describe in varying detail near riots that have broken out at WB training (i.e., directors being physically threatened, people quitting and/or threatening to quit, etc.) over this game. I must agree with you that it seems clear that it has no place in BSA training - even if it CAN work out well when done by particular people under particular circumstances.

 

YIS,

 

-Robert

[Bob White]

Doc

Things change. You need to realize that a number of scouters, and posters on this forum, have not yet been on staff for Wood Badge for the 21st Centrury OR went through staff in the previous version of Wood Badge.

 

There is a big difference. In the past there was definitely a belief, wether written or past down throug the ages, that the lessons of Wood Badge should not be taught outside of Wood Badge.

 

That myth is disspelled with Wood Badge for the 21st Century. Nothing in the course training or documentaion suggests that these lessons are to be concealed. In fact just the opposite, The whole idea of having well trained leaders is to have them train others in good program and leadership pratcices.

 

Even on this forum , nmany aspects and lessons opf Wood Badge have been discussed in great deatail. Empathetic communication, group dynamics, planning, evaluation, coaching and mentoring, EDGE, Tickets, and other aspects of Wood Badge have all been openly discussed on this forum.

 

There are far more posts on the public side of the OA forum then on the pricate side. that does not make the information secret just member specific, it is no different than most units that have a public side to their web site and a member specific side.

 

I will tell you what is interesting to me about the Game of Life. I will bet that anyone on staff that has been in scouting for a while can spot who will be the cause of any conflict during the game. If anything the game helps them to understand themselves better.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eamonn]

I haven't looked at this thread for a while!

Seems to me and as ever I could be wrong - Again!!

We are looking at 3 things.

1/ The closing of the thread.

This can be a tough call for the moderator. The poor guy is very much on his own. While of course the Moderator Team can and could try and get hold of each other before taking any action. We never know who is where and who will check their e-mail when.

So this becomes a judgment call.

Old Grey Eagle, who I'm sure most of us will agree is a nice fellow did what he thought was best.

Fact is that he was chosen to do the job because it was felt that he had good judgment.

2/ The Game.

As I have posted (I think many moons back I started a thread about this and then said how I didn't like the game) It is not my favorite part of the course.

I have seen it fail and fail miserably.

I have seen participants really enjoy it and come away having learned from it.

Even though I don't like the game, I do think that most (Not all) people come away asking questions. -Which isn't a bad thing.

3/ The Openness of the Course.

Some years back I found a site for Wood Badge Staffers. In order to join you had to fax a copy of your Staff Certificate to the owner of the site.

I thought this was a bit over the top and didn't bother.

We do invite youth members to help with the course. I really don't think anything is done to withhold any important information. In fact a big part of the course is spent on communication (The giving and receiving of information)So to dress it up in some kind of secrecy would be counterproductive.

Sure there are still some people, many who should know better who seem to want to dress the course up as something that it isn't. I have no idea why?

Truth is that if you want to know anything about the course all you have to do is ask.

Just be sure to ask the right person.

There is still a lot of myths, legends and misinformation surrounding the course.

I know people who have attended the course and when they inform me of what they did, I at times have to go back and look at the syllabus to make sure that the course I presented was the right course!

I was around when a lot of the silliness was around. Some of it was fun, but sadly some participants came away thinking that the silliness was the course!

Over time some things that are funny stop being funny when everyone knows the punch line.

God Bless all the people who have worked so hard suspending rocks from tripods. But lets be honest we all know the punch line and while maybe it still might rate a smile? That's about it.

 

Back when I was a very young Scout. The Troop I joined was supposed to have an Initiation Ceremony. (Today it would be hazing.) A new camper was supposed to be spread out on the ground tied to four tent stakes. While other members of the troop covered him in jam, butter and other nasty stuff.

As a little fellow I heard of Scouts who were stripped naked, covered in jam and left for hours with red ants eating away on their flesh.

I of course in no way am saying that this should be done. In fact I'll bet we lost a lot of Scouts just because of this.

The truth is that no Scout was every left for hours, rarely if ever was any sticky stuff used. No one was ever stripped naked and most times the Scout just choose to lie down while someone drenched him with a bucket of cold water.

As I say none of this is good and should never have been allowed to happen.

But my point is that the truth is a long way from the rumor.

Many of us (Me!) do at times fall into the trap of over rating the small stuff.

On one of the courses I was staffing another staff member told me that the SM ( Who is now a dear and close friend, but at that time was someone I didn't know that well.) was "Big" on uniform in uniform.

I spent the entire week watching this guys legs!! If he wore shorts, I wore shorts, if he changed from long socks to short socks I changed my socks. I send runners out to the Patrol telling them what to wear.

My presentations came second I was not going to be caught with the wrong socks on.

Sad thing is that we now have an adult patrol who came away from the course thinking that the most important thing that week was their socks.

This game. Like it or not, well done or not is only a very small part of the course

Eamonn

[BryanSpellman]

As a recent Wood Badge course grad (still working my Ticket) I for one am glad I did NOT know what The Game of Life was about. It was an interesting lesson but one that was well worth it. It would have been totally different had we known the 'solution'.

 

I think it is not about it being a secret. I can know in a heartbeat what Rosebud is but watching Citizen Kane without that knowledge gives me a whole different experience.

 

The Game of Life is the same.

[Bob White]

Hi Bryan,

I don't totally disagree with you but I do have a question. Have you seen Citizen Kane a second time? Did knowing What Rosebud meant diminish the movie for you or did it allow you to see other details more clearly?

 

How many people do you suppose see the movie after knowing about Rosebud and yet still enjoy it?

 

The Game of Life does not depend on the players knowledge of it.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[NeilLup]

One of the interesting things about the Game of Life is that even if you know exactly what is happening and how it works, the game still happens, other Troop members act as they are going to act and one is not guaranteed to "win."

 

A bit like life.

[OldGreyEagle]

I will try to explain my position

 

I see The Game of Life the same way I see other related "mind benders" or activities designed to teach a lesson. The one I remember best is the excersise on ranking the importance of materials one has while stranded on the Moon. If you have participated in this activity, the next time you do it, the impact is little to nothing. Leastwise that's the way I see it.

[Bob White]

Something to consider is that the exercise you speak of, and the other games just like it, are not abot knowing the right answers to the list,but about the interaction of the group, and the dynamics of decision ,aking in a group. Those excercises are far more about group dynamics that the Game of Life is. Everytime you the play those scenario games with a new group you have new dynamics regardless of knowing the answer to the list. The same is true of the Game of Life.

 

I have played this game with an airplane crash scenario, and forest fire scenario, a lost on the amazon scenario, and every time the team dynamics were a little different.

 

So knowing the answer or the reason for the excercise makes no real difference.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

I have played this game with an airplane crash scenario, and forest fire scenario, a lost on the amazon scenario, and every time the team dynamics were a little different.

 

The only difference is these three disaster scenarios is how to survive and/or care for those who didn't. Not much variation.

 

Still questioning the usefulness of games like these.