Leader Training Award Tips...

[Eagle92]

Not to change the subject, but I am anyway, how the heck do you keep the devices on your knots? Mine were constantly coming off, and I don't mean in the wash either. It's like the pin portion was not long enough. The only thing I've seen done is two volunteers having their knots mounted on a ribbon bars and had the pins on the devices snipped so that they could superglue the devices onto the the knots. As you can guess I just said heck with the devices and stopped buying replacements.

[Bob White]

Eagle 92 is looking at some OLD progress cards. Rather than use council sites use the BSA national Web site's filestore data base.

 

From the current Venturing Leader award. Progress card

(Dates of service used to earn this award cannot be used to earn

another key or award.)

 

From the current Varsity Leader Training Award Progress Card

(Dates of service used to earn this award cannot be used to earn

another key or award.)

 

The pins work better on the ribbons than the knots. They always have. I haven't tried using them on the knots in several years. One reason is they don't stay on well and two. they don't all fit on the knot. For instance I have 3 devices for the Scouters Key award (Scoutmaster, District Committee, Commissioner), and 4 devices for the Scouter's training award (Scouter, district committee, Commissioner, and Sea Scout award) and there just isn't room on the knots. So now the just sit in a box inside another box somewhere in the basement.

[PACK15NISSAN]

To comment on the "tenure" issue, it is my understanding that you cannot hold two POR at the same time (I realize there are some exceptions and that this does occur because of lack of volunteers). However, when the BSA registers a scouter, do they not register him/her under the position code listed on his/her application?

 

If I where registered as the CM and serving as the ACM too, the BSA would have my registered as the CM and not the ACM. As far as they are concerned I only hold the position of CM. If all this is true then I could only legimately earn tenure for a position in which I actually held. Although some one may be doing the work of another position unless they are actually registered as that position then they should not be eligible to earn tenure toward that position.

 

I agree with BW on this, a year served is a year served, not a year in the Troop and a year in that Pack. You can't receive the same credit for two positions during the same time period (even if they are different Packs or Troops) the time simply doesn't add up.

[GNX Guy]

Pack 15,

 

We are speaking about being registed in 2 different units. NOT two positions within one unit as you speak about. Being registered in multiple units is perfectly fine. In fact youth can also be registered in multiple units.

 

 

[FScouter]

"Do you mean the BSA official website?"

 

No, I mean every internet site EXCEPT the official BSA website. Council websites are the worst. They generally seem to be put together by a volunteer and are updated on a haphazard schedule if at all. There's no way to tell how current things found on the internet may be. The best way for a council to present current forms and docs is to link direct to the BSA site. Some do, some don't.

[Eagle92]

Yeah just checked the national site and the council is out of date. So my question on this matter is this: should a a leader be penalized if, in good faith, he or she received the wrong card, completed the requirements that they were given, and turns it in.

 

Also I noticed that there have been a few changes in the requirements of the Scouter's Training Award since I got it, and probably others as well. What about those who got a card at their intial training, and the requirements were changed, i.e the specific order of training needed, would they need to do the new training when originally their training counted?

 

On another note, does anyone have access to an insignia control guide and see if there are anything on mounting knots on ribbon bars? I would say current, but my old boss in Supply said that a new one should be out soon with the new insignia changes.

[FScouter]

If the requirements are met one earns the award. If not, there is no award. Its not a penalty if one doesnt meet the requirements.

[Bob White]

Nothing in the isignia guide designates how the uniform element must be attached. The only caution is that the uniform should be neat in appearance.

[Gunny2862]

It would appear that one must look at the awards one is trying to earn and determine if concurrency of tenure is allowed...

 

From: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-56.pdf

"SCOUTMASTERS KEY" - "Tenure

Complete at least 3 years of registered tenure as

a Scoutmaster within a 5-year period (can include

the tenure used to earn the Scouters Award)."

 

From: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-55.pdf

"BOY SCOUT LEADERs TRAINING AWARD" - "TENURE Complete a total of 2 years as a registered adult Boy Scout leader."

 

and in relation to the question asked specifically, see BOY SCOUT LEADERs TRAINING AWARD above and the rest below...

 

From: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-62.pdf

"DISTRICT AND

ASSISTANT DISTRICT

COMMISSIONER

PROGRESS RECORD

FOR THE

COMMISSIONER KEY/

ARROWHEAD HONOR AWARD" - TENURE Complete 3 years as a registered commissionerwithin a 5-year period. Tenure for one award cannot be used for other training awards."

 

From: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-59.pdf

 

"VENTURING LEADER TRAINING AWARD" - "Tenure

Complete a total of two years as a registered adult Venturing leader.

(Dates of service used to earn this award cannot be used to earn

another key or award.)"

 

So it would appear to me that in the question asked they would have to be done separately. In conjunction with the above, I would ask IF they were going to be done concurrently then is the individual a Commissioner for either of the other two units?

 

Now while I like concurrency for tenure in different units if the individual is doing the work and not just riding the charters and would like to SEE a ruling from national about concurrent service in DIFFERENT units(and think it should be allowed) it would seem that since they have specifically made allowance for concurrence in the case of certain awards that concurrence isn't allowed where they are both not specifically allowing it and, in fact, proscribing it at the same time.

 

But that's just the way I'm reading it. (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[FScouter]

it would seem that since they have specifically made allowance for concurrence in the case of certain awards

 

The Scoutmasters Key is the only award that allows using the tenure from another award, specifically the Boy Scout Leaders Training Award. The reason is very simple. The Scoutmasters Key is the only award that requires the Boy Scout Leaders Training Award to be earned as one of the requirements. Three years tenure as a Scoutmaster is required, and two years of it is from the Boy Scout Leaders Training Award. If separate tenure was required, it would take five years tenure to earn the Scoutmasters Key.

 

Thus the concurrence, ONLY for the Scoutmasters Key.

[Eagle92]

FScouter,

Unless there is a more up-to-date card somewhere on national's website that I am unable to find, I can't even find any copy of the progress cards I am talking about, the a Sea Scout Skipper working on his Skipper's Key can also use his tenure from terh Sea Scouter's training Award, at least as is posted on my council's site.

 

Also what about Varsity Scout Teams, have there been changes there?

[Bob White]

A leader can finish under whatever progress card he or she began with as long as they can complete all the requiremennts on the card.

 

[FScouter]

From the Leadership Training Committee Guide, (referring to all program areas):

 

Tenure used to earn one key or award cannot be used to earn another key or award, unless otherwise noted in the award requirements.

 

The only award that is so noted is the Scoutmasters Key. There is no similar notation for any Sea Scouting or Varsity award.

 

[GMitch]

You simply have to put in the time and satisfy the requirements. There's no easy way to do it. I used older tenure to earn the Scouter's Training Award. Why? Because my most recent 2 years of tenure is being used to earn the Cub Scouter's award. I cannot start on the Pack Trainer's Award until the 2 years of tenure is over for the Cub Scouter's Award. Therefore, it will take 4 years to earn those 2 awards. If it were any easier it wouldn't mean much. Gunny posted the requirements for Scouter's Training Award and the Scoutmaster's Key. I would say that before those, a Scoutmaster should earn the Scoutmaster's Award of Merit in his first 18 months. Then in 24 more months (at 3 1/2 years) his Scouter's Training Award, and then in one more year (4 1/2 years) he should earn the Scoutmaster's Key. Again, there is no easy way to pencil whip the tenure without being dishonest or ignorant about it.

[Gunny2862]

Uh, okay, but from the ignorant position, isn't the Scoutmaster Award of merit a NESA award? And doesn't the concurrence requirement fall aside because a another organization(NESA, that is recognized by BSA and is allowing the wear of this award) is awarding it at the request of the PLC and Troop Committee rather than it being an earned award through BSA?

 

Documentation to refute, anyone?