Leader Training Award Tips...

[NobleUncas246]

So I'm newish to the adult side of scouting, and I wanted to make sure that some fellow troop leaders were working on their training awards... Our boys wanted to know what we adults do to advance and the awards came up in a discussion with them. Very few if any leaders in our troop do them, so now we are pushing to work on some of them because the boys expect in return to their efforts towards Eagle. They even asked our commissioner if they need to earn an award - kind of funny...

 

So we have a leader who is involved on many levels - district, venturing, and the troop - can they earn multiple awards at one time as long as their is a different registration for that award and no crossing? Scouter's Training, Venturing Training, and District Committee Scouter's Key? We are going to trick him into doing the awards since he doesn't really care all that much. In any other council - he would be a District Award of Merit/Silver Beaver scouter - but he doesn't do the conventional training path, and he doesn't take credit for the good he does do.

 

So can he work on multiple of the training awards at the same time? Or no. Just wondering, he's done all of the different trainings except woodbadge...

[NeilLup]

Honestly, I'm not sure if one can work on several training awards in different program elements simultaneously from a tenure point of view. I would think that one can if one is multiple registered in different program areas.

 

I do know that tenure can be retrospective and does not need to be completed after training is taken. I know that I qualified for the Scouter Training Award immediately upon completing training as I had completed 3 years tenure as asst. Scoutmaster prior to taking training. So I would go back in his record and submit the progress record based on past tenure.

 

As far as District Award of Merit and Silver Beaver, in many, many cases, people do not receive those recognitions because of not being nominated. There is nothing to lose. Get the nomination forms, get his record in depth (you may need to ask him), write it up and submit it. You may be pleasantly surprised.

[Bob White]

First, if a scout asks you how do adults advance you can explain to them that they don't. There are various recognitions and awards that Scouters can either earn or be selected to recieve, but there is not advancement program.

 

A trained scoutmaster or assistant scoutmaster is considered to have the skills of a First Class Scout, but there is no adult advancement program.

 

As for tenure, NO. For most recocognitions that require tenure such as the various training awards you are prohinited from using the same period of time for tenure that is being applied toward another training award. So if a person is an assistant scoutmaster and a den leader they can apply their tenure to one award or the other but not both. Once the tenure has been completed in one position then time can begin being accumulated for the other.

 

If you feel tha there are individuals worthy of special awrds such as Silver Beaver, District Award of Merit, and others then by all means nominate them.

 

Hope this helps,

BW

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[GNX Guy]

I would have to disagree here with Bob White with respect to "Tenure"

 

I think the big issue is many do not actually understand the term "Tenure" and what is actually means.

 

Tenure is the term used for "holding something" and in our situation the leader is holding 1 specific leadership position within a single unit. Or one may say the length of time with current employer (or leadership position) in current job (or leadership position).

 

If the leader is registered and holds 2 different leadership positions in TWO DIFFERENT UNITS at the same time(say a Scoutmaster for Troop 100 and a Den Leader in Troop 200) one would say they are holding 2 separate leadership tenures. Another example, say a college professor teaching at say the Illinois Institute of Technology during the day and DePaul University at night. Two separate employments, two separate tenures to be earned. Now, you cannot earn both the Cubmaster knot and the Cub Scouter knot at the same time within the same unit. It would take 4 years to earn these within the same unit. But would only take 2 years to earn them if the leader was registered in 2 separate units during the same period of time.

 

In the training awards criteria, there is no mention at all about using training for one award and one award only. It only mentions tenure. There is more to earning the recognition knots than just the tenure and attending the training class. There are usually several other criteria or goals that must be met. The intent of these awards are to foster the leaders into delivering the program to our youth as it was intended to be delivered.

 

(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)

[Bob White]

Under TENURE on nearly every current training award pocket score score card it says..."(Dates of service used to earn this award cannot be used to earn another key or award.)"

[NobleUncas246]

I know it's not advancement- that's what the kids called it, so I used it here.

 

Thanks for the information, I may ask our District Commissinoer. I've nominated this guy umpteen times with members from our troop, I'm not exactly sure why he hasn't been picked for any of the big awards.

 

There is some cryptic wording in all scouting advancement/training literature, and that word tenure is the one for the adults. If anyone else has an opinion, please share, but I'll go to the district commissioner now.

 

Thanks for weighing in.

 

Kevin

[OldGreyEagle]

First I have to ask how far from the zoo do you live? I loved the Brookfield Zoo growing up in the 'burbs.

 

When you nominate the person of which you speak, how much do you write? How much text do you have? Don't just list dates and offices/positions held, explain in detail what he has done. Give examples of how his service improves the program. We have several on the disitrct I serve who are Silver Beaver quality, it just has to be explained how and why they would qualify

 

BTW I like your name, I take it the name Uncas is inspired by the James Fenimore Cooper novel "Last of the Mohicans", do you know where the model for the charactor Uncas is buried?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Bob White]

Actually Uncas your nominations would have, or should have, gone through either the District or Council Advancement committee or Training committee depending on the award. For instance; training awards go through the District Training Committe, the District Award of Merit through the District Advancement Committee, and the Silver Beacer through the Council Advancement Committee.

 

District or Council Commissioners would only be involved for the various commissioner awards, other than that they are pretty insulated from the awards process.

[NobleUncas246]

OldGreyEagle - Noble Uncas is actually based out of the OA for me, whose store is the same as the novel I believe. If I ever get around to it, I have NobleUncas.org which is meant to be an OA resources site if I ever get it up and running. If you look now, you can see various web projects I'm working on.

 

I write a book every time with the nomination of stats and thoughts and try and get others to join in. Usually about 5 or 6 different letters of rec to go with it... I'm not sure about the selection process, but I don't think you can pass someone for a decade when their nomination has only grown stronger...

 

I'm about 1.5 miles from the zoo, I'm on the West side of town, and despite living near it, I went to it for the first time in 8 years about 2 weeks ago.

[NobleUncas246]

Bob - I know about the proper committees for the nominations, our District Commissioner was the last council training chair... He stays current on all that stuff.

[GNX Guy]

Bob White, I do see that on the Cub Scout leader Knot progreess records I looked at, (Cubmaster and Cub Scouter)

 

Again, Tenure applies to a single registration within a unit.

 

Note that is says for example, on the Cub Scouter award progress record, "Complete 2 years as a registered adult leader in CUB SCOUTING in a pack" That would indicate one Tenure. Now, if one is also registered as a Scoutmaster that would be a different Tenure.

 

 

May I direct your attention to the Tenure requirement on the Boy Scout Leaders Training Record. It states " Complete a total of 2 years as a registered adult Boy Scout Leader" That's it. No mention of time cannot be used toward anything else. Now, direct your attention to the Venturing Advisor's Key. It states "Complete three years of registered tenure as a Venturing crew Advisor within a five year period" Again, no mention that time cannot be used toward another key or award.

 

The important thing to remember here are SEPARATE registrations in DIFFERENT UNITS equals different Tenure times. One must understand what the term tenure means. Now, if it said Tenure as a registered leader within any BSA Program, I would have to agree with you.

[NeilLup]

"hanks for the information, I may ask our District Commissinoer. I've nominated this guy umpteen times with members from our troop, I'm not exactly sure why he hasn't been picked for any of the big awards. "

 

Hello Uncas,

 

Having served as selection committee member and having nominated people, I would suggest that you talk in a polite and friendly manner with the selection commitee chairman. Mention that you had nominated XXXXX and ask if the nomination needed additional information in any particular area to be strengthened and be successful.

 

By and large, these nominations fall into one of a few categories:

 

1) Selected this year

2) Not selected this year, but easily could have been. Fully qualified now

3) Not selected this year but if they continue to do things and contribute will meet the standards in the future

4) Not selected this year. If they don't do qualitatively more than they have been, they likely will never be selected.

 

The chairman should be able to tell you into which of these groups the person falls and what additional information would strengthen the application.

 

I have also found that updating and nominating year after year ultimately is successful.

 

Don't let the committee be lazy. They may not be willing to tell you anything but most often, they will be. You don't want to know why YYY was picked and your candidate was not, you want to know how to present information to strengthen the case for your candidate.

 

You also can try to find out who is on the committee and talk to them before the selections. If they don't know your candidate, you can help by providing accurate information.

[Bob White]

Hi GNX

If you notice on the Cub tracking card it says that the dates of service cannot be used for "ANY other key or award award", not just ones in the same unit or program...ANY other.

 

If you look at the Commissioner awards you will see the same quote that the dates used cannot be used for ANY other Key or award. You will find the same quote on the Venturing Leader award.

 

The end result is that the dates of service on the training awards CANNOT Be shared with any other keys or awards regardless of what program they are in when it has this quote in the Teure section.

 

You are correct that the restriction does not appear on every award. I said that in two of my posts..."It is on nearly every training award".

 

On the Scoutermaster's Key it says...

"Complete at least 3 years of registered tenure as a Scoutmaster within a 5-year period (can include the tenure used to earn the Scouters Award). But it does not allow the years spent earning other keays or awards to be applied, only the dates used for the Scouter's Award.

[Gold Winger]

There was a lengthy discussion of this subject a while back. I'm with GNX on this. Two registered positions, two tenures, two awards.

 

Let's apply a little bit of logic (that pretty flower which smells bad) and common sense here.

 

This is one of those rare instances where BSA has written something that isn't very clear.

 

Of course, the final answer doesn't come from us, most of us can only offer opinions and discussion. The final answer will come from the District Training Chair or whoever needs to sign off on the award. Convince him that GNX and I are correct and you're golden.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[Bob White]

What is ambiguous about the following quotes from the Tenure section on these training awards?

 

From the Commissioners Arrowhead and Commissioners Key Awards

Tenure for one award cannot be

used for other training awards.

 

From the Cub Scouters Award

(Dates of service used to earn this

award cannot be used to earn another

key or award.)

 

From the Venturing Leaders Award

(Dates of service used to earn this award cannot be used to earn

another key or award.)

 

Sure there are some training chairs that you will be able to convince to do things wrong, and obviously there are scout volunteers willing to let them in order to get a knot for their uniofrm, but is that really how you want to earn these recognitions. I would hope that most scouting volunteers have more personal integrity than that.