Diferences in BALOO, OWL, and IOLS

[Eagle92]

Can anyone please tell me what the differences are between the Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO), the Webelos Leader Outdoor training, and Intro to Outdoor Leadership Skills? This is going to sound ridiculous, but I never had enough interest in the CS side of training, to get the two CS courses done when I was training chair. Further I cannot recall it being offered in the 4 districts comprising my service area. The only person I know to go through them actually went out of council to complete them.

Thanks

eagle 92

[Bob White]

BALOO is training for pack level volunteers leading a pack familiy camping program. It covers safety, hygiene, planning, and event organizations, with a small smattering of basic outdoor skills.

 

OWL which is an often used local name for the Webelos Leader Outdoor Skills course teaches Webelos leaders how to teach the outdoor related Webelos Activity Oin topics and teaches them some basic skills for leading a simple outdoor program including safety, hygiene and planning.

 

The Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters and covers the skill information from the Boy Scout Handbook that a boy needs to progress from Scout through the first three ranks of Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class Ranks.

 

But this is what really caught my eye...

"This is going to sound ridiculous, but I never had enough interest in the CS side of training, to get the two CS courses done when I was training chair."

 

Are you saying you didn't see that those courses were held because you weren't "interested enough" in Cub Scouting even though you were the training chair?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eagle92]

Bob White,

No, It wasn't that I wasn't interested in those courses. It was that everytime I tried to get one organized, I had trouble getting leaders to attend as either trainers or students. I had to pull teeth as it were to get an IOLS done, and then only 3 people showed up for the course. Trust me I believe every Scout deserves a trained leader.

 

In a predominatly rural area where most people go hunting and fishing on a regular basis, few of the leaders think they really need to go through the training. Plus we have alot of oldtimers, average Scout leader tenure in the district is approximately 12 years with half of the troops having at least one Woodbadger in the unit, if not more. Alot of the folks ask, "Well why do I need training to do the things we already do and that I learned from XYZ leader?"

 

Another problem that was encountered was that there was no guidance from council on training. For most of the 2 years I was training chair, there was no active council training VP. He was a paper VP. There was no real coordination among the districts to organize joint training opportunities, and in my case no active DE to help get information, only a DD who were filling in until a replacement came. By the time I saw him, the other districts he covered had already had their events.

 

Fortunately some of the problems are gone. We have a very active training VP who holds regular meetings and coordinates with the districts. Because we have started hosting Woodbadge on a regular basis, we now have several district trainers who have more contact with the other districts as well. We've had two or three joint training sessions with other districts since I changed positions to chap. adv. We still have our problems, i.e. lack of a DE, just losing our head CS trainer, and the "why" attitude, but the situation has improved.

 

I guess my question now is this: does IOLS cover enough of the BALOO and OWL information that can I help out on the courses as a staff member or do I need go through them as a participant before helping out? I've never seen either the BALOO or OWLS syllabi so I cannot compare it to IOLS. And with no CS trainer at bat, I think I will be apporached in the near future to help with the CS side of things when my son joins CS next year.

[FScouter]

That's the most common reason I hear too for skipping the Outdoor Leader Skills training. "I already know how to go camping." Somehow folks get the idea that the purpose of IOLS is learn how to tie a knot and sharpen a hatchet. Maybe the name should be changed to "Teaching Camping Skills to Young Scouts".

[fgoodwin]

Eagle92, welcome to the Forums.

 

Bob White did a good job summarizing the three courses. The audience and content are very different, although there is some overlap allowed in teaching parts of IOLS and OLS-WL concurrently.

 

I've taught parts of BALOO and IOLS, and I helped organize a session of OLS-WL; I think an experienced trainer can probably do well in most any segment of the three courses, but as is the case for any course, the more experienced you are in the topic, the better you'll be at presenting the material.

 

I would never suggest teaching a section stone cold w/o any preparation; get the syllabus, review it, and try to practice your presentation before you actually do it.

 

Personally, I like the "Socratic" method, meaning I try not to lecture so much -- I prefer asking leading questions and have the audience respond. It tends to increase participation, and I've found an active learner retains more. If you can have your audience wear name tags, it makes it easier to call on those who are less forthcoming in their participation.

 

Try to make it fun -- especially if you teach a section of BALOO. Oddly enough, Cub Leaders still think the program s/b fun for the boys and don't mind having fun themselves!

[ScoutNut]

So, your council has not held an outdoor training for ANY of the levels for a number of years? Wow.

 

While technically, the Webelos and SM trainings are not required to take their respective groups camping, BALOO is required. How do the Packs get their Tour Permits approved for Pack Overnighters when no one will take the training?

 

Or is it that no one in your council bothers with Tour Permits?

 

We do not run District level outdoor trainings. There would not be enough bodies to make it cost effective. We do 2 council wide trainings for each outdoor course every year. One in the Fall, and one in the Spring. These dates, along with every other training date for all districts, are listed on our yearly Training calendar, which has been out for a few weeks now.

 

Your question - "does IOLS cover enough of the BALOO and OWL information that can I help out on the courses as a staff member or do I need go through them as a participant before helping out?"

 

As a former District Training Chair, I am really surprised you asked this question. Cub Scout camping is way different from Boy Scout camping. Just because you have taken IOLS does not mean you know anything about how Cub Scouts camp. Also, as a rule, BSA wants their trainers to have gone thru the training as a participant before letting them teach others.

 

If I was the BALOO Course Director, I MIGHT let you staff the equipment section, or the lunch prep. With no prior Cub Scout experience or training, I would ONLY use you if I was in a REAL bind, and had no other choices.

 

[Eagle92]

Scout Nut

In reference to the tour permits, on the CS level they are rarely, if ever used by a lot of folks. That is a battle that is slowly changing, especially when we talk about the insurance and liability issues. Awareness is being raised and more units are starting to use them. As for how the tour permits get approved, I don't know. Maybe because our training records are so screwed up, there is no way to tell who actually has the BALOO training. Fortunately this to is getting better.

 

In reference to council wide training. Because of the geographic size of the council, it's been challenging to get things organized on that level in the past. Basically it's been every district for themselves. And with our professional and volunteer leadership challenges on the council level, well you can imagine. Again new SE, new VP Training, and Woodbadge on a regular basis have helped to change things around.

 

I've actually completed the old Cub Scout Basic Leader Training way back when, but I haven't any of the CS Outdoor training. Plus like all things it's use it or lose it. Since I've been dealing mostly on the scout side of things, the CS side is a weakness for me. I was forntuante that I had a great CS trainer who handled NLE and leader specific. I am actually planning to help out with some NLE and leader specific courses to refresh my skills.

 

As for undergoing the training before teaching it unless needed, I understand that one, and that's why I intitially declined the training positon, I haven't done all of the training, nor have I completed Woodbadge. But there was no one to do it and I got Shanghied into doing it by my old boss, district chairman, and district commissioner. Unless we can get a few service area or council level courses going, it's going to fall back on the districts. And with the lack of a CS trainer at the moment, "I have a bad feeling about this."

[infoscouter]

Eagle92 -

 

If you're going to get re-involved in the Cub training, you should know that there are new versions of the Cub Scout position specific training and BALOO, which were released this summer.

 

I would suggest taking the Cub fast starts, just to get re-acquainted. Like you, I was trained with the old Cub Leader Basic. However, I've been primarily a Cub Scouter for the last 19 years, so I've kept up on the changes - and there have been quite a few. One of the best on-line trainings I've seen lately is the new Den Chief fast start, which does a great job with the parts of a den meeting, and boy behavior and needs.

[eolesen]

My council has had the same difficulty in scheduling the various outdoor training programs. Last year's IOLS was canceled due to lack of sign-ups, and wouldn't you know it, Woodbadge applications also fell off.

 

It's not for a lack of trainers, but a lack of people who can give up the time. The scoutmaster and CC in our troop could probably staff Woodbadge if they'd only gotten around to attending one of the two courses that had been held in the past three years. Yet other councils of comparable size manage to pull off three or four courses a year. Not coincidentally, they also manage at least three outdoor training sessions per category (iols, baloo, owl).

 

I lay that success at the feet of the training chairs. Heck, we didn't even have a 2008 training calendar until halfway thru February...(This message has been edited by eolesen)

[Bob White]

IOLS is about learning and learning how to teach the Boy Scout skills required for advancement through the First Class rank and has NOTHING to do with the purpose of OWL or BALOO.

 

While there are a few skill topics that are in both OWL and IOLS they are at different skill levels.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[scottteng]

It is possible to staff a course having never taken it. The sections you are assigned to teach should be something you have some expertise in. I have staffed for three BALOO courses and have never officially taken the training. I started out as a WEBELOS leader and took Webelos leader outdoor. I have taught the gear portions of three BALOO classes. Sleeping bags, Tents,Stoves, lanterns etc I have lots of different gear being a major gearhead which I bring with me. I have examples of sleeping bags from slumber party bags to 0 degree down filled all different variety's of tents both liquid fuel and propane lanterns and stoves. I have also assisted with lunch and everything else. Instructors are provided with a syllabus and all the handouts that part is not hard. The hard part is the add on visual parts that help people understand. When you tell them to gear check their cubs and then hand them a slumber party bag and ask them if appropriate for a November family camp even here in Florida they get the picture. Webelos leader outdoor and IOLS are much better when done together as the latest syllabus suggests you actually impart to the Webelos leaders some of the trauma their young charges will be undergoing in crossing over. I took the old stand alone Webelos leader outdoor and the new one works much better

[ScoutNut]

Yes, it is possible, in certain situations. I specificaly mentioned equipment and lunch. However I also stated I would only do that if I had no other choice.

 

Actually, scottteng, if I had to choose someone who had never taken BALOO to be on BALOO staff, and the choice was between using you, or Eagle92, I would go with you. Having been a Webelos den leader, and taken an outdoor course aimed at Cub Scouts, you would definately have better Cub Scout experience than someone who had never been a Cub Scout leader or taken a Cub Scout oudoor training.

 

BTW - I am on the District Training team, and a BALOO Course Director.