Boring

[wffarrell]

Hello Scouters,

 

I need help, advice and stories of success. This is the blueprint:

 

We have a large troop of nearly 100 boys. (Yeah, a bunch of you are saying that's the problem, but, hey, this is Texas, what do you expect???)

 

We have a real hard time with troop meetings. We generally get 30-50 attendance. We've tried all sorts of things: conduct multiple merit badge classes, speakers like the police dog handlers, patrol meetings, contests and other ideas we've gotten from the Internet, other troops, and the ton of Scout literature available at the scout shop. We are not new scouters. We are Wood Badge trained, we have District people, we have over 20 ASM's and a strong committee and parent support group.

 

But, it's still a tough go. Other troops in our area have the same problem and we hear it at Roundtable: how do we keep the boys engaged with the program? The kids say the meetings are boring, yet we have reduced announcements down to less than 5 minutes by using a web site. We are really trying to resist making troop meetings simply another form of entertainment.

 

Being an old geezer, in my day as a youth we had to do everything ourselves. We organized our ball games, took off all day on Saturday and returned at dark. We did things ourselves at troop meetings: planned a camping trip, worked on a project like a model of a camporee, and stuff like that. Nowadays, kids have everything arranged: soccer, basketball, band, baseball, karate, dance, etc. and we as parents don't like our kids taking off at dawn on Saturday with a "See ya at dark". The kids are bombarded with a ton of stimuli all the time and they have the attention span of a gnat. We try to get them interested in creating a knot board or some other project and we are met with huge resistance.

 

OK, so I haven't given up on them, but I need more concrete support than the generalizations I usually get like "create a memorable program", "engage them", "boy led troop", "patrol method".

 

I know all that. I teach all that. But, modern kids don't seem to have the basic social skills to make this work.

 

I'm really frustrated. We use troop meeting planners, conduct regular PLC's and JLT's, but it's like pushing a rope. We get kids on a campout and they have a great time. They really enjoy being out there cooking and messing around in the forest or whatever. But, when we ask them what they want to do, it's like "I dunno, whatever."

 

If anybody out there has suffered through this and has some ideas I'd greatly appreciate the input. If you don't want to post a message on the forum send me a note to: wfarrell@houston.rr.com

 

And, please, I'm not looking for generalizations. We are all seasoned and trained, but we're still not getting through to the scouts. Any ideas would be valuable.

 

Thanks,

Bill

[LauraT7]

 

WOW! so many boys! Aren't you lucky!

 

ok - how about this - don't plan a "troop" meeting.

 

plan the night for "patrol" meetings instead.

 

wasn't it BP's idea that "the patrols gather to form a troop, the troop doesn't divide into patrols?" I may have misquoted, but the idea is the same.

 

Break them down into manageable parts,

forget trying to do anything but summer camp and camporees and big stuff as a whole troop. operate your patrols as a "troop within a troop", give each boy ownership of his patrol and he'll be interested enough to stay active. You're never going to find anything that will satisfy 30 -50 boys ranging in age from 11 to 18 all at once. It just isn't possible.

 

how many patrols do you have, and how many from each patrol turn up regularly? Do you have an ASM assigned to each patrol to "guide" them? this ASM can help them pull out ideas, and plan and find the interests of paticular boys - until they learn to do it themselves - like you did.

 

you could:

 

have 1 -3 patrols plan stations for each night that the other patrols visit to learn skills, etc.

 

the patrols should be planning their own outings / campouts - either as 1 patrol, or as a couple of patrols with similar interests.

 

The only badgework you should work on is an ongoing, troopwide badge - like biking - a bike inspection and repair night? Badge workshops (per se) should not be done at meetings (there's another thread on that) but may be one patrol wants to work on it and can have that as their contribution to the meeting.

 

somewhere down the line there is a good thread on getting kids to brainstorm for new ideas (to get rid of that "i dunno")

 

Compitition is a great motivator - have them enter and compete on those knot boards!

 

 

[Rooster7]

Competition is great! We have a troop of about 60 boys. We regularly conduct competitions between patrols. This is how we work it. We assign a patrol a skill to teach for that week's meeting (i.e., how to set up your troop tent properly). After the skill, we have a competition (i.e., which patrol can set up his tent the fastest - AND properly...OR, which patrol can set up his tent the fastest in the dark - AND properly). The winning patrol gets to split a bag of candies (i.e., small chocolate bars, etc.). After the skill and competition, we using have a game of some kind. There's more to the meeting, but the aforementioned activities consume the bulk of the time. I have some criticisms concerning our troop meetings, but for the most part - they're not boring.

[Bob White]

wffarrell,

 

You wrote "We have tried everything". What have the boys tried? It has been my experience that the boys get bored when they are doing the activities that the adults choose. What decisions does the PLC make?

 

Bob White

[acco40]

I like the idea of patrol competitions, but if you believe in having a patrol of peers (i.e. Venture Patrol, Experienced Patrol, Pathfinder Patrol, etc.) the deck can be stacked against the younger folks. To remedy that situation, I usually put in various handicaps.

[buffalo2]

LauraT7

Thanks for the BP quote...

Once again we can go back to our roots!

[wffarrell]

To all,

 

Thanks for the great replies! And in a single day, too. This is like the World's Biggest Roundtable.

 

I read my own posting and pretended that someone had sent it to me. How would I answer?

 

If I had to pick one word to summarize our main problem I would pick: planning.

 

We have 9 patrols. Each patrol has two ASM's as advisors. Currently, we put our new Scouts in their own patrols, usually 3 patrols created in January with some shuffling and reorganizing of the other patrols. New Scout patrols also get 1-2 Troop Guides to work with them through their first summer camp.

 

Historically, patrols in our troop haven't met outside of the regular troop meeting time. We think this is one problem. It's not a quick fix, either, but we are now attempting to get the patrols to have meetings on their own. Scheduling is hard for the kids, though, so we thought of taking one troop meeting per month and having the patrols meet on that evening since it's already on the calendar. However, that leaves us with two troop meetings plus a PLC per month.

 

We don't plan our troop meetings in enough detail and we don't make assignments clear. Hard to believe since we use the planner, but a lot of our meetings "break". Also, we don't have a backup plan, nor do we have something like an Instant Meeting Ideas box that we can reach into to fix a broken meeting.

 

(For example, we had an outdoor event planned and the school decided to dig a trench that morning.)

 

I tell you, this forum really works. I'm solving my own problem. But, we're not done, yet. Keep those ideas and questions flowing.

 

Regards,

Bill

[Pack38Scouter]

Bill ... out of curiosity ... what Troop are you with in Sugarland? 731?

[eagle90]

We've heard the same complaint - "The meetings are boring". So a few years ago we started assigning each one of our PLC members (PL's SPL, ASPL, JASM's)a meeting to plan from start to finish. We tell them to use any resources they have - patrol members, parents (who may have an interesting hobby or vocation), MB counselors, books, the Internet, etc. Just make it be 45 minutes long, scout related, and KEEP IT ACTIVE - no lectures!

 

They have come up with some great plans and some bummers, but that's part of learning too. They really seem to enjoy out doing their fellow scouts. Of course I always have a backup plan in the briefcase just in case....

[SR540Beaver]

Geez, I don't want to be the only one to sound a sour note and it really isn't meant to sound that way. You are right, we live in a very convenient microwave oven socitey where our kids are spoon fed. While it is our job to guide and encourage the boys, you can only help someone who wants to be helped and who is willing to help themselves. As has been said many times in these threads, scouting isn't for every boy. Some will thrive on it and some won't like it. If the boys find it boring even after all your attempts to make it not boring within the established guidelines, then maybe the bored boys need to find something else to do. I've watched many kids in sports who are only playing because mom and dad want them to. They are not there because they enjoy it. Other kids you can't drag off of the field and it is their parents who complain about having to be there. Bravo to the parents who will give up their free time to support their kid's interest against their own. Boo to the parents who make their kid's participate in something the kid is not willing to give 100% to. That kid ends up ruining the experience for the whole team. Certainly, try to make changes to engage the boys, but realize that some won't like it anyway. For those, they can either join in or move on. They will be happier and the troop will function better.

[ASM7]

wffarrell

 

I agree with Bob White. The scouts don't typically respond well to adult planned meetings. They should have left that behind in Cub Scouts. As leaders, that's not our place. You may be trying to do too much. The PLC is the planning committee. Give them the resources and let it happen. Make sure they go through JLT and JLTC. If they are still bored, then they can only blame themselves. It may be unstructured for a while, but let them lead the troop. Too many adults running around telling everyone what to do is sometimes counterproductive in establishing boy leaders. The boys should plan games and activities for the troop as part of the meeting. If they are not having fun, something is wrong.

Hope this helps and keep us posted

YIS

Doug

[rlculver415]

Just curious - how big is the facility the troop meets in? (as in capacity) Usually the size of a meeting place will determine attendance, even if enrollment is much higher. A larger meeting place will increase attendance as much as any program improvements.

 

Definitely encourage patrol activities and meetings outside of the troop setting. (This is something we are also working on.) With a group as large as yours these gatherings become even more imperative since in a patrol bonding is stronger than among the entire troop. Maybe the PLC would be willing to promote patrol activities for a while, with participating patrols reporting in the meeting what they did. Perhaps instead of the usual monthly campout, once or twice a patrol outing could be planned with the SM's approval.

 

Another suggestion for the PLC - overplan the meetings. Make plans for more than the troop has time to accomplish. Yes, it hurts a bit to let an idea go, but if plans tend to "break" there will always be a back-up something to do. Overplanning isn't really a waste of effort. I've found many times in many situations that it's a lifesaver (or at least an attention-keeper!)

 

My 2 cents...

[wffarrell]

Hello all,

 

I'm completely revitalized by this discussion!

 

To ASM 7, actually we did just about the opposite about a year ago. The Scouts said "Meetings are boring" in a PLC so we did a brainstorming and all that and the Scouts wrote their own program. Yes, we helped carry it out, but (and this was a mistake) we didn't guide them very well in what they chose to do. They chose to have more games at meetings and in retrospect we should have used competitions, etc, but we didn't. As a result, after about two months of games attendance really dropped off, and the refrain was "Why should we come to a troop meeting if we're just going to play games. That's a waste of time."

 

So, we learned to use competitions and have some games, but we're not running on all cylinders.

 

To KWC57, the facility is a problem. We meet in an elementary school cafeteria and the accoustics are so bad and the place echos so much it really contributes to the problem. We set tables out in a semi-circle and use tables at the back of the room for projects, etc. But, it's very noisy. A quiet, squeaky little Scout can't be heard in the front row. It's a big room, but it's really hard to conduct a meeting in it. Our scouts are very social and I've seen a group of them jabbering away like a bunch of magpies with their Scout Signs Up!

 

One idea that I like is to create an Emergency Meeting Resource Box. (reads like a good Wood Badge ticket item!) In it would be all sorts of things, props, ropes, hats, who knows what...and...a set of meeting ideas already figured out. Say, five or six of them. "Open in case of broken meeting."

[red feather]

I would recommend the patrol meetings during at least one troop meeting per month. As has been stated time is the blockade to many outside of meeting scout activities. Each patrol then can decide what they want to work on either that month or plan for the upcoming overnight and the following months patrol meeting. (hidden training for future PLC participation)

 

It sounds like your troop is into scouting skills and activities that are used outdoors, maybe plan a meeting for outdoors where the boys work on fire building skills, cooking skills, etc.

With awards for best fire, fastest built, string burned, whatever.

 

Broke meetings are a problem. The troop I am in each ASM is supposed to have a backup program to pull out if needed. Mine is knots and firstaid, set up as competitions or first aid situations that the boys have to resolve. With two ASM assigned to each patrol you would have two backup plans in case that patrols program tanks.

 

Usually any outside program during the troop meting goes over well and is one that captures their interest.

 

 

YIS

 

[KoreaScouter]

I'm a little confused here. If you're conducting an annual program planning conference, selecting monthly themes, and using the troop meeting plans from Troop Resources, then the interpatrol activities, patrol meeting topics, etc., are already "suggested". Now, I'll be the first to admit that we replace certain preopening activities, or use our locally-devised competition events in some cases vs. the games in TR Vol III, but as a rule of thumb, we follow TR pretty closely. If you do that, your patrols will meet at every troop meeting. Of course, TR doesn't proscribe how much time in every meeting must be apportioned to skill instruction, patrol meetings, etc., but they're in there to use. When I imagine doing it for a troop as large as this, I get an ice cream headache, but with sufficient youth leaders, it's gotta work no matter how large the troop is, right?

 

KS

 

KS