Is Wood Badge just about "the beads"?

[Kudu]

pchadbo writes:

 

. . . why kick those of us in Cub Scouts who want to become better leaders in Scoutcraft AND "leadership theory"

 

Scoutcraft?

 

We kicked the Scoutcraft OUT of Baden-Powell's Applied Scoutcraft Course because it wasn't relevant to the "leadership" needs of indoor Den "Leaders."

 

pchadbo writes:

 

Wouldn't a Cub leader who is laying a foundation be a help to the Troops?

 

No.

 

Office "leadership" theory is not a foundation, it is a metaphor.

 

The purpose of Baden-Powell's Wood Badge is to train Scoutmasters to get their Patrol Leaders out on patrol.

 

Redefining the Beads to represent indoor "leadership" is like redefining those cool silver BSA Lifeguard whistles to represent a trendy corporate office course based on an extended "sink or swim" business metaphor.

 

So why not kick everything related to swimming out of BSA Lifeguard train-the-trainer courses so that Den Leaders who never get wet can wear those cool silver whistles?

 

Just move all that wet stuff to a course called "Introduction to Waterfront Leader Skills" that reduces adults responsible for training BSA Lifeguards to checking off first year Tenderfoot through First Class swimming skills.

 

Think of how "inclusive" we would be!

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net/

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

pchadbo

 

Don't worry too much about Kudu, he means well he just has a funny way of relating to those who don't think the way he does

 

He does have some very good ideas and the website he keeps is a great resource, I made a Capote for my living history charactor Pierre Alloyoius DuMode a few years back and it wasn't till much later I realized the pattern I followed was from Kudu's site

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/gear/capote.htm

 

Great resource for all things scouting, as far as his attitude towards some more "modern" topics?

 

Well, if we all thought the same way, what a boring place this would be, Kudu keeps it interesting

[pchadbo]

Wow glad I ducked before Kudu's post.

 

I am new to scouting and to the boards, so I cannot intelligently debate the virtues of the WB courses that have been and are being offered. I simply asked the question that seemed logical to me: in that CS leaders who are familiar with the patrol method would do nothing but help establish that once the boys reach BS.

 

In return I get the previous Diatribe.

 

OK Kudu, from a newbie to someone who has walked the trail before me, What training and/or skills should I as a CS leader posess and tranfer to the boys in order to make the new Boy scouts a more "scout ready" (if that is a term) group.

 

I really am intersted in your answer as I am trying to make this the most rewarding experience I can for the boys.

 

Paul

[Kudu]

pchadbo writes:

 

Joined last year as a new Tiger Parent with my son...someone who did not do Scouts...

 

What training and/or skills should I as a CS leader possess and transfer to the boys in order to make the new Boy scouts a more "scout ready" (if that is a term) group.

 

I really am interested in your answer as I am trying to make this the most rewarding experience I can for the boys.

 

Most rewarding experience for the boys?

 

Borrow a copy of Last Child in the Woods: Saving Our Children From Nature-Deficit Disorder and allow the Cubs unstructured play in the woods without any adults trying to make it "meaningful."

 

While they explore nearby, sit and read William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's two-volume masterpiece: Handbook for Scoutmasters (About $15 per volume):

 

http://tinyurl.com/368exou

 

Yours at 300 Feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net/

 

 

[pchadbo]

Thanks you can bet I will check those out, however our pack has the nature defecit thing covered being in the woods of New Hampshire ourselves, and getting the kids INSIDE is more of a problem most of the time. (Not a bad problem to have in my opinion)

But I will definitely be checking those out (is it ok to buy myself Christmas presents. . .)

I think Although we both get our dander up at times, I would enjoy a cuppa around a campfire with you anytime Kudu

 

-- and as for the "rewarding" piece: mud + water + boys = FUN

that is the goal right?

[GernBlansten]

pchadbo,

I wish I had come across Kudu when I was a doe eyed scouter like you, just getting started. Didn't read his stuff until I'd already been trained by my council and indoctrinated into my troop culture (and not the Kudu way either!). I could have been a crusader!

Oh well, my last few years with my troop I tried to implement some of his ideals. The boys liked it.

[Eagle92]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but Cub Scouts IS different than Boy Scouts. What Kudu promotes does not fit Cub Scouts 100% as it is Boy Scout oriented. I fyou were in a troop, I say follow it 100% However as the cubs get older you CAN start "letting go" and letting them take over, especially at the Webelos level.

 

One thing I have done is recruit a den cheif, and I try to let him run parts of the meetings. Heck last den meeting, ADL was workign with one group, DC was with another, and I was dealing with paperwork. He got a kick out of being able to sign off on advancement.

 

One thing that Kudu has modestly not recommended, but other have, is go visit his website. I highly recommend it.

[ScoutBox]

Wow. Seems I used his website to help prepare TLT in my Troop.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Laying a foundation.

 

 

The best thing you can do for scouting for the cubs is retention. You will see that an incoming class of tigers is say 20 scouts, wolf year they are 15 bear year they are 12 and webelos they are 10 and crossover you will have 5 or 6.

 

 

Retention, make scouting fun.

[Eagle92]

P et al,

 

I don't know Kudu personally, but this is what I get from his posts.

 

1) He is passionate about Scouting. Why else would he compile and produce on his website all the scoutcraft items that he has? He wants Scouting to grow, and shares his knowledge with those of us who are still learning. And sometimes that passion come out the wrong way over the internet as you cannot see the "non-verbal languange" of tone of voice, facial features, posture, hand gestures, etc.

 

2) He survived the 1970s urban Scouting program, saw what happened to Scouting and never, ever wants it to happen again. Especially since the man who saved Scouting, Green Bar Bill, has gone home, and I doubt that any one man could ever wear his smokey bear.To paraphase a popular comment in my neck of the woods: Green Bar Bill had forgotten more about Scouting than all of use had ever learned AND HE STILL KNEW MORE THAN ALL OF US (caps for emphasis as that is emphasised in the joke).

 

3) He sees Scouting going down that slipperly slope to urban Scouting again, with the focus on leadership, one size fits all training at both the adult and youth levels, etc. as well as a de-emphasis on traditional Scoutcraft. Hence his abhorrance of WB21C. While I respectfully disagree with him about Scouting and leadership training to a degree (I think leadership training should come about via heavy use of the PM), I beleive he is 100% correct on traditional Scoutcraft and the PM. As others have pointed out in other threads, we cannot expect a brand new leader with no previous outdoor experience to become an expert in just one weekend. We need to emphasize basic scoutcraft and the PM more in our training.

 

EDITED: Sometimes he appears gruff and may rub you the wrong way, but please do look at some of the stuff on his website as it is a treasure trove of scouting knowledge that has probably taken his lifetime to collect.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[OldGreyEagle]

Just to be clear, Kudu's dislike of WoodBadge did not start with WoodBadge for the 21rst Century, it started with the curriculum change in WoodBadge in 1972

 

 

[Kudu]

Eagle92 writes:

 

Not to be a stick in the mud, but Cub Scouts IS different than Boy Scouts. What Kudu promotes does not fit Cub Scouts 100% as it is Boy Scout oriented.

 

Yes, I am also against turning Cub Scouts into Boy Scouts, but pchadbo seemed to be asking two questions:

 

1) How can I lay a foundation to prepare my Cubs for the Boy Scout program?

 

2) How can I prepare myself for the Boy Scout program?

 

My answer to the first question is: Unstructured Play in the Woods.

 

The point of Last Child in the Woods is that a passion for the outdoors comes from spending time there without adults trying to make the experience "meaningful." That is how I would run a Cub Program.

 

As to the second question: The third edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters contains 65 pages of information about Green Bar Bill's "Real" Patrol Method that Scoutmasters should be learning in Wood Badge, plus another thousand pages on how to run a Boy Scout Troop.

 

Thanks everyone for your feedback on my Website! In addition to the vintage Patrol-based Scoutcraft, I find good modern adventure offered in a Troop program based on the new Scuba Diving Merit Badge:

 

http://inquiry.net/scuba_diving_merit_badge/index.htm

 

Yours at 300 Feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net/

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Kudu's a good fellow, eh? And quite da champion for patrol method.

 

I think he lost some wit and perspective when he stopped workin' with kids because life happened. That's often a problem with district and council scouters too, eh? The more remote yeh get from the boys, the more yeh can get a bit too strident about form and policy, rather than practical working substance. It's the curse of commissioners, eh (leastways, the ones who weren't appointed as warm bodies). Commissioners should be goin' on at least one campout a month with different units, rollin' up their sleeves and doin' some active work not just kibitzing.

 

I wish Kudu would start up a troop and crew again to practice and refine his notions. Real live kids help keep us from bein' too convinced and strident about our pet theories. WB ain't perfect by any means, but then what is?

 

Beavah

 

[pchadbo]

Kudu wrote: " pchadbo seemed to be asking two questions:

 

1) How can I lay a foundation to prepare my Cubs for the Boy Scout program?

 

2) How can I prepare myself for the Boy Scout program?"

 

 

I wish I had said it first because it is humbling for someone who does not know you to better state your question than you can yourself.

 

Thanks to Kudu, Beavah, OGE, Eagle92 and the rest. . .learning is best done at the feet of those who have walked the path before

 

Paul

[Kudu]

Beavah writes:

 

I think he lost some wit and perspective when he stopped workin' with kids because life happened.

 

Life happened?

 

Yes, I retired and moved to the rural south but I did not stop working with Scouts. In addition to weekly meetings and monthly campouts, this spring I tagged along with them and earned Open Water (and then Advanced Open Water) SCUBA certification, which was new to me. I took a dozen of them on their first backpacking trip a couple weeks ago (which was new to them), and two days later accompnied a couple of them on a twelve hour 84 mile bike hike (which was new to me).

 

Beavah writes:

 

I wish Kudu would start up a troop and crew again to practice and refine his notions.

 

Yeah, that usually involves driving a half-hour to a bad neighborhood in need of a new Troop.

 

There are plenty of "Troops in Trouble" down here, but in my old age I prefer to work as an Assistant Scoutmaster just down the street (the county's largest Troop), as well as staff "SM&ASM Specific Training" and "Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills" for the District.

 

But not much of a demand for OKPIK down here

 

Beavah writes:

 

Real live kids help keep us from bein' too convinced and strident about our pet theories.

 

Strident?

 

In "real life" I am easy-going: For the first two years in my current Troop I never mentioned the Patrol Method until our new Scoutmaster (and his wife, who was the Committee Chairman before that) were "blown away" by my version of the Patrol Method presentation when they attended SM&ASM Specific Training.

 

Beaver is absolutely wrong about "real live kids" making anyone "less convinced" of the Boy Scout program as Baden-Powell and Bill Hillcourt describe it.

 

"Real live kids" prove that when you pick the best natural leaders and separate their Patrols by 300 feet, Scouting begins to work just the way Baden-Powell and Bill Hillcourt describe it, even with Scouts who have never experienced the Patrol Method before. Anybody can do that.

 

"Real live kids" prove that you can register 28% of an auditorium full of skeptical boys if you offer them the kind of adventure that Baden-Powell and Bill Hillcourt describe (a total of 70% will sign your list in front of their peers). That is above and beyond the best efforts of what Wood Badge trained volunteers and professionals can do, which is what? 2%? 4%? 8%?

 

So "real live kids" prove that anybody can do up to 14 times better than the fake CEO theory you learn in Wood Badge. It's easy:

 

that: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

The 70% figure indicates that the potential for BSA Scouting (if we get rid of Wood Badge) is almost three times higher than my own 28% registered "real live kids," so the potential additional Scoutcraft marketshare is 35 times higher (if the current TAR is 2%) than the current Webelos III "Every Scout is a Leader" program.

 

If Wood Badge really taught people how to think like CEOs, each and every Wood Badge Staffer would at test these methods so they could boost marketshare or dispute my findings.

 

Judging from my Website, I'd say that the kind of adventure that Baden-Powell and Bill Hillcourt describe is still popular, despite what Wood Badge Staffers tell you. So far this week I have served the following numbers of page hits:

 

12/5/2010 12,579

12/6/2010 14,662

12/7/2010 13,373

12/8/2010 11,740

12/9/2010 11,246

 

Beavah writes:

 

WB ain't perfect by any means, but then what is?

 

Wood Badge is certainly perfect: The perfect cult!

 

The place to debate the awesome destructive force of Wood Badge is here, no matter how many fellow-Beavers accuse me of being "a bit too strident about form and policy, rather than practical working substance."

 

Yours at 300 Feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net/