Is Wood Badge just about "the beads"?

[shortridge]

That seems pretty insulting to Seton...

[shortridge]

That seems pretty insulting to Seton...

[sherminator505]

"I think Wood Badge should take up the pre-1972 Curriculum, the one Kudu advocates and the current 21rst Century curriculum can become the Ernest Thompson Seton award. Rather than wooden beads, graduates of the course would wear tiny flash drives on leather thongs around their neck."

 

Oh, were it just that easy! Anyone know where I might find the pre-1972 syllabus?

[emb021]

"Oh, were it just that easy! Anyone know where I might find the pre-1972 syllabus?"

 

Been trying to get early WB syllabi. Every time they come up on eBay, they get bid up higher then I want to/can pay.

[trainerlady]

Beads, smeads. I had a rotten WB class and could care less about completing a ticket and getting the dumb wood bits. I learned very little and spent money the family didn't have to go to the class.

I went to learn to be a better leader, didn't get anything in the class that I hadn't learned from the Red Cross, Royal Lifesaving Society or Girl Guides as a youth, add in a couple of team/staff development courses various employers brought in and you have WB 21st Century.

 

If you really want to get a higher level of training visit the Philmont Training Center or one of the National sponsored courses at Seabase. Cousres are taught by instructors that are doing what you want to learn and doing it well (otherwise they wouldn't be teaching it). I wish I could have my WB money back. Went to the PTC before WB and after WB class, would gladly have spent the WB money at the PTC. Thought WB would be helpful and enlightening. It wasn't.

 

To those with "antique" beads consider yourself lucky you learned what you needed to be a Scout leader.

 

I have come to realize in Scouts (Boys and Girls), and many other fields, that if you are surrounded by people that don't want to change no matter how much training you have and how gung ho you are you can't cause change. All you really do is piss the people around you off. Share your knowledge with those that want to be enlightened, change will eventually catch up to the first group and swallow them whole.

[jhankins]

Trainerlady, I'm sorry your Wood Badge experience wasn't fulfilling. I agree with your PTC is an excellent place to train.

 

That being said, all Wood Badge courses aren't created equal despite National's best try to make it so. It's disheartening that you had such an experience. I rarely hear such stories, but understand I am blessed with my council's sincerity, creativity, and dedication to providing the very best training possible. The staff here for such courses are considered carefully, educated, and pour their hearts into giving the very best to the participants on the course, not the cult or religion of Wood Badge (as some call it).

 

I would hope that you find peace in knowing that others are learning heaps from the program and find it beneficial for more reasons than just 2 wooden beads.

[acco40]

Hmmm, I took a Physiology and differential equations course in college. Which one was better? I think they both stunk because in neither one did I learn anything about ancient Incan culture!

 

Saying the WB for the 21st Century Course is better or worse than the previous course is a non-productive debate because their intent was to teach different things.

 

If one want to argue about what should be taught in a Wood Badge course - go for it.

[Kudu]

acco40 writes:

 

Hmmm, I took a Physiology and differential equations course in college. Which one was better? I think they both stunk because in neither one did I learn anything about ancient Incan culture!

 

Your analogy is valid only if:

 

1) Your college has a Congressional Charter that grants it a monopoly in the United States on Physiology and Differential Equations, and

 

2) Decided in 1965 to declare war on its Congressional Charter by replacing the course content with ancient Inca culture because that might make it more popular with racial minorities and Den Leaders.

 

acco40 writes:

 

Just like a college degree, the Wood Badge beads can mean a lot or very little depending on the person that they were awarded to.

 

Why should Wood Badge be about subjective "meaning"? Why is it about the "sincerity, creativity, and dedication" of the staff who "pour their hearts into giving the very best to the participants on the course" if it is not indeed the "cult or religion of Wood Badge"?

 

Why do we increasingly hear about the boxes of tissue provided to the Den Leader participants, while Wood Badge graduates remove the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the Patrol Method Presentation of Scoutmaster-Specific training and replace it with Wood Badge EDGE theory?

 

Because Corporate CEO Wood Badge does harm to the Scoutcraft program promised to American boys by an Act of Congress.

 

It has done so since 1965 when Wood Badge declared war on our Congressional Charter.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

 

[acco40]

Kudu - Do I sense a little bit of bitterness? The Wood Badge syllabus/course material is a restricted item so I can only comment on my experience in taking the "new" course (WB for the 21st Century).

 

Your "cultish" like description for WB can be attributed to the Parol method too. Patrol cheers? Patrol flags? What's that all about? Look at the "obnoxiousness" that Wood Badgers have about their critters (well Beavers are inherently obnoxious but those Bears can't be beat). Paticipants are arranged in patrols, eat by patrols, study by patrols.

 

Yes, you may be at 300 ft but your message, once received done here on the ground seems muddled. Are you speaking of changes to the Intro to SM Fundamentals course? Wood Badge?

 

I can debate specifics but not generalities. My point was that the current course is more about leadership and yes, it borrows from corporate culture and it is not about tying knots or handicrafts.

[CHLees3rd]

Kudu,

 

Please do not take this as a flippant remark as I am really sincerely asking, but have you written your Congressman and/or Senators about how you feel the BSA is not living up to what is in the Congressional Charter? If so, will you share the reply or replies you have received? Any chance that Congress may revoke the charter or compel the BSA to adhere to the conditions?

 

YiS,

Chazz Lees

[Kudu]

Kudu - Do I sense a little bit of bitterness?

 

All Wood Badge debates eventually lead to "leadership" advocates moving the debate to an ad hominem attack on the motives or emotions of those who advocate Patrol-based Scoutcraft.

 

This tradition started in 1965 with John Larson's destruction of William Hillcourt's Wood Badge:

 

In December 1965, Chief Scout Executive Joseph Brunton Jr. received a "blueprint for action", the White Stag Report, from John Larson. It stated that offering leadership development to youth was a unique opportunity for Scouting to provide a practical benefit to youth and would add substantial support to Scouting's character development goals. It recommended that Wood Badge should be used to experiment with the leadership development principles of White Stag.

 

The National Council leadership approved adapting the White Stag leadership competencies for nationwide use. Dr. John W. Larson, by now Director of Boy Scout Leader Training for the National Council, adapted the White Stag leadership development competencies and wrote the first syllabus for the adult Wood Badge program. Shifting from teaching primarily Scoutcraft skills to leadership competencies was a paradigm shift, changing the assumptions, concepts, practices, and values underlying how adults were trained in the skills of Scouting.

 

Some members were very resistant to the idea of changing the focus of Wood Badge from training leaders in Scout craft to leadership skills. Among them was Bill Hillcourt, who had been the first United States Wood Badge Course Director in 1948. Although he had officially retired on August 1, 1965, his opinion was still sought after and respected.

 

Larson later reported, "He fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right." Hillcourt presented an alternative to Larson's plan to incorporate leadership into Wood Badge. Chief Scout Brunton asked Larson to look at Hillcourt's plan, and Larson reported back that it was the same stuff, just reordered and rewritten. Larson's plan for Wood Badge was approved and he moved ahead to begin testing the proposed changes. The program was designed and written by Bnthy, Perin, and Larson.

 

http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

I have to laugh at this point.

 

I am involved with a woodbadge course. A member of staff sent an email out to staff and partipants and it stated they had taken the woodbadge prior to 2000 and it was horrible and did not compare very well with the current course.

 

I am subscribing more and more to Kudu's beliefs.

 

I am sorry I missed the old course........My opinion after the first weekend is the scouters involved with woodbadge have forgotten about the boys. Adult Scouts of America

 

I wonder out loud whether a Course of pure Woodcraft would be successful. I don't think it would because of egos.

[desertrat77]

Basement, as much as I'd love to attend an all-woodcraft course, I too have my doubts about it, for the reason you stated--egos.

 

I think one of the reasons why BSA has moved to management training.

 

On the other hand, leadership, or woodcraft, or anything else in the field, there are going to be people who excel, and people who don't.

 

Every few years, there is a new management theory that becomes THE way--management by objectives, total quality management, and now Lean or Six Sigma.

 

While some of this is no doubt beneficial, if intelligently applied, two traits common to these management theories are the emphasis on committee work (call it what you will, it's still a committee) and universal application (everyone MUST subscribe and apply the theory; fractionalism, ie, disagreement with the management theory = Not a Team Player).

 

We stifle leadership development when we demand that everyone swims in the management pool, with the endless meetings, briefings, and hand holding.

 

Leadership development is a little messy for some. That's why I think woodcraft is down played these days. What better way to learn leadership than when your patrol caught in the pouring rain, dinner fire won't start, morale is low, etc.?

 

At the end, some will rise to the challenge, others won't. However, we live in an age where, in some arenas, discomfort is avoided, and distinctions (someone gets the first place ribbon) are distasteful. Ironically, it's only in these types of messy settings that leaders realize they can lead, and thus hone their skills.

 

Leaders stand out. Managers have stature, yes, but not on par with the leaders. And for some managers, this chafes them deeply.

 

For example, how many of us know anything about the White Stag/WB revisionists that Kudu mentioned in his research? Nice gents, I'm sure, but how did they distinguish themselves?

 

On the other hand, Green Bar Bill is known worldwide. He's a leader. He led from the front, in the field, not in the meeting room.

(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Basementdweller]

The bragging and mine is bigger than yours was kind of amazing. they spent an excessive amount of my time bragging up the staff.......Wow, you have a whole ten years of experience and most of it as a cub leader. No one spoke of Philmont, Jambo, camping, backpacking, or the outdoors. The longest tenured staff member was a mere 14 years.

 

 

I will say that this group of woodbadgers have forgotten about the boys long ago. I am second guessing signing up to take it. The time will be better spent actually working with the boys.

 

 

The reason I am taking the course is the woodbadge barricade at the District and council level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

I admit that I have not taken WB, and when I do it will be basically for the beads and contacts. While I will use the materiel taught in the course, from what I keep hearing it is a lot of what I already get at work.

 

But earning the beads does open up opportunities, i.e. jambo assignments, etc. BUT the most important reason is the contacts I'll make to help provide a quality program. It is one of those events that does bond a patrol together through the shared expereince.

 

BUT I do see a need for a weeklong scoutcraft course that goes beyond IOLS. Belay that last statement, I see a vital, stress VITAL need for a course that covers scoutcraft like the old WB course. I am seeing more and more leaders who have no previous scouting experience and/or military expereince. ILOS is just that, and Introduction, and some need a lot more help.