Is Wood Badge just about "the beads"?

[BadenP]

Hey Gher

 

The purpose of my post was is WoodBadge a training to become a better scouter or is it a method to a means. The symbols and the special recognition that you are somehow now in an elite class or group of scouters emphasized by the beads, the plaid scarf, and special woggle marking you as some kind of "scouter elite". If all those symbols were no longer a part of the training would it still hold the same interest for them?

 

Ch Lee does a good job getting to the heart of the issue, Wood Badge trains you to become a potentially better leader it does not make anyone all knowledgeable in scoutcraft or the BSA program as some would have you believe. I have been through WB in the 21st Century and the prior version as well, I have my beads, neckers and woggles in their presentation boxes at home, and I rarely wear them because some scouters feel intimidated or feel angry that we are setting ourselves up as some kind of special or elite group of scouters. IMHO we are in this as volunteer scouters for the youth first and foremost and I do not feel the need to wear something to prove what kind of scouter I am. Many scouters feel that they earned those symbols and are entitled to wear them, which is their right, but too many WBers display those beads, etc.,and act like they have completed some kind of rite of passage into making them superior scouters which is just not true.

[ScoutBox]

Scouters I have heard and seen it all before. After serving in the Army, and seeing those who went to jump school or other schools just to wear a badge. I myself also was jump qualifies, but I was also on Jump Status, went to Ranger school the works. But many did those things not for battlefield survival but for promotions.. You will always have a few with in any organization who is only in it for themselves. Sadly, it's the boys who suffer. I have no problem with these people around. As long as I know who they are, then I can get on with doing what important, and avoid them. I plan to get my beads this next year once my ticket is finished, as for wearing my beads sure i will, I've earned them. But I also plan to attend several courses that I can't or there aren't awards to wear. In fact I'm not a Commissioner, but I went to the course, same as other courses I've attended, I can't wear the patches etc. but I'm not in it for that anyway. I think those adults who are should think twice about being here in the first place. I find many who serve in Scouting for the awards, missed out on serving int eh military, or didn't serve due to other reasons. But Scouting is a way for them to wear a uniform etc.. Anyway, it's for the boys, and if people who attended course want to wear patches beads knots etc.. go for it. But if you have all of that stuff, and your Troop, Pack, Den or crew isn't running the way it should then you probably not in the right field..

[nolesrule]

I have 2 small girls, so I have 10 years to go till I have any kids in the program, if I ever do at all. I am here solely to give back for what I got out of the program as a youth.

 

I took Wood Badge last Feb/March and the things I learned have helped me become a better commissioner to the units I serve. The interpersonal skills are invaluable, and honestly I haven't gotten this much out of any course since I took Small Group Communication in college...and that was the once class where I referenced my notes frequently once I got out into the real world.

 

Beyond that, I thought it was a great experience meeting people from other units and in other districts. who have become or may become resources to me, both on staff and participants. I knew 3 staff and 1 participant coming into the course. That number is much higher now.

 

I thought the microcosm of the scouting experience as presented in Wood Badge to be very helpful. Sure, it's not Kudu's form of the Patrol Method, but it's a lot closer to it than many units I have observed actually practice, and gives me concrete examples to relay when helping guide them in the right direction.

 

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I will complete my ticket 3 months from tomorrow, and I plan to wear my beads.

[ScoutBox]

Funny, but I felt that my WB Course showed a really good Patrol Method experience. We acted and did everything as a Patrol. Only thing we didn't do that I can remember as a Normal Patrol would do is Vote for our Critter. That was assigned to us. But the rest I felt was good to go. Now maybe I'm wrong, but it didn't seem that way. BTW, We camped through out the whole one week course.

[Basementdweller]

Let me see better scouter........

 

I became cubmaster in feb last year after previous CM quit

 

Since then, We have doubled the size of the pack, doubled the size of the leadership, We had 80% participation in Day and resident camp, developed a Pack budget, developed scout accounts, developed meaningful award ceremonies, We quadrupled our popcorn sales. Advancement for the year looks pretty good we have 14% of your scouts already receiving their current rank. I anticipate 80-90% by the Feb Blue and gold. We have lost a number of scouts, despite calls and reaching out to the parents and youth the appear to be gone. oh well.

 

I could go on and make a list of personal scout accomplishments but to what end......... Woodbadge had zero to do with any of it.

 

 

If anything woodbadge has soured my taste and view of scouting.

 

[BrentAllen]

Basement,

Even with all your success, I'm sure you have one or two members of the Pack complaining that you are doing things wrong, that their kid is being treated wrong, that they are left out the "clique" making all the decisions.

 

No difference between your Pack, and all the success that Wood Badge has. Even though thousands go thru the course every year and love it, there will always be one or two who are going to complain. There's one in every bushell...

[Scoutfish]

Not being a woodbadger myself...I did enjoy this entire thread..even though I am reading it and my understanding of it is that from an outsider's perspective.

 

First thing first: Allthough the title itself is not incorrect, I do think that from an understanding point of view, perhaps

"Are Woodbadgers in it just for the beads?" is actually trhe meat of the question.

 

Woodbadge itself isn't about the beads as the beads are only an indicator or recognition of taking woodbadge.

 

Why tghe wearer has the beads, what they mean and wether they are flaunted have absolutely nothing to do with taking WB.

 

Now, as having only 3 years or so experience in scouting, I can very well tell you tha6t some peole consider themselves better scouters or what not just based on having a DL patch on their shirt, a CM, SM patch or even becuase they have a nicer tent and cook stove.

 

At my very first camping experience with cub scouts, I saw a dad who had the most contemp and disdain for everybody else because he brought a full size folding table, a gas grill, a portable DeWalt radio, a portable 7 inch tv , a weather radio, 4 or 5 folding camp chairs with bult in leg rests ( okay, those were cool!), and a tent that was a 4 room with screen porch, elevated deck with hot tube. etc....

 

Well, he pulled a 10 X 6 trailer to bring it all too.

 

Well, if that's what he wants...that's fine with me. But "Mr. Superior camping dad" probably didn't enjoy the camping experience the way I did.

 

My son asked me what that noise was in the middle of the night. After a few minutes, I figured it out: The sound of leaves falling and landing on the ground or tent.

 

So anyways, it's not Wood Badge or a rank patch or a camp stove that has the "arrogant superior to those poor souls who are less statured than me" attitude.

 

It's the person themselves.

 

And truth be told..if that person had taken WoodBadge, he flaunts the beads. If he hadn't taken it, he still smirks because obviously, he knows more than the Wood Badger ever will and didn't have to take the class to know it!

[Scoutfish]

I plan on taking Wood Badge myself, the next time it is offered.

 

What I will learn is beyond me, but I suspect thsat it is actually a different experince in learing to each individual who takes it.

 

I might come away with an awesome outlook and extra pep in my step. I might come away with a jaded view of scouting. I might just come away with new freinds and contacts and nothing else.

 

 

But I will not become the arrogant, self centered egotistical jerk that I have seen in all wakes of life.

 

Matter of fact, I wish everybody could meet the most capable, smartest man I ever met.

 

He was a hog farmer who had 3 farms.

[Kudu]

TNScoutTroop writes:

 

There are plausible arguments for the position that the modified Wood Badge was a stealth hijacking of Scouting...when a minority within an organization hijacks an organization, they often KEEP the old names while gradually morphing existing programs into something new.

 

Thanks to TNScoutTroop. I would be interested in further examples of that process.

 

Wood Badge's "stealth hijacking of Scouting" is done by repurposing the terms "Scouting" to mean "Character and Leadership" (as it is defined in most attacks on Scoutcraft) and "Patrol" to mean a group of adults sitting around a table using the EDGE method (as it is now defined in the Patrol Method Presentation of SM-Specific Training).

 

The new handbook even repurposes the term "Scoutcraft" to include EDGE!

 

AvidSM writes:

 

To me, the Wood Badge beads are a symbol of commitment to scouting.

 

No, the Wood Badge Beads are NOT a symbol of commitment to "Scouting."

 

Not "Scouting" as it was practiced by Baden-Powell, the man who invented Scouting and Wood Badge.

 

Not "Scouting" as it was practiced by Bill Hillcourt, the man who brought the Patrol Method and Wood Badge to the United States.

 

Not "Scouting" as it is defined by our Congressional Charter (as "Scoutcraft"), which Wood Badge is "committed" to replacing with indoor office manager theories called "Leadership Development."

 

The great mystery of Scouting is why "modern" Wood Badge is so committed to replacing Baden-Powell's Scouting with "Leadership Development."

 

In theory people who are good office managers could report that they use their theories to help Patrol Leaders "lead" their Patrols over physical distance (which was the definition of a "Real Patrol" before 1972). But most Wood Badge participants are intent only on brainstorming reasons why they can not let their teenage Patrol Leaders camp away from Cub Scout campsites.

 

It seems obvious to me that these indoor office theories do not work outdoors, but I'm willing to listen to Patrol Outing success stories.

 

AvidSM writes:

 

He made scouting a priority over the other things in his life.

 

No, "he" made Leadership Development a priority over "Scouting."

 

AvidSM writes:

 

You may dismiss Wood Badge for the 21st Century entirely, but it does not take away the fact that its participants care about scouting and its results.

 

No, its participants do not care about "Scouting" as it is described by Baden-Powell, Bill Hillcourt, or as it is defined in our Congressional Charter.

 

All Wood Badge participants care about explaining why Wood Badge must replace Scouting with office theory.

 

They certainly do not care about "results" that can be measured by either moving a Patrol over physical distance without adult leadership (the test of "Real" Patrol Leadership) or our corporation's dismal membership numbers since Leadership Development replaced Scoutcraft.

 

AvidSM writes:

 

The people who take the modern course can wear their beads just as proudly as those in the past.

 

Well, of course they "can."

 

But if Baden-Powell had handed out silver whistles to signify the participants' mastery of lifeguard techniques, then "modern" Wood Badge would have replaced lifeguard techniques with office manager formulas. Den Leaders (who hate the water as much as they hate Scoutcraft) would wear their silver whistles "just as proudly as those in the past."

 

AvidSM writes:

 

Its not scoutcraft it is peoplecraft.

 

My point exactly. "Peoplecraft" is just a fancy way to describe manipulating people from an office.

 

AvidSM writes:

 

This is a universal skill set, taught by a lot of other organizations and businesses.

 

Yes, we agree on that!

 

We saw how well this "universal skill set" worked in the world when we replaced what is real and measurable with bundled toxic assets. The most charitable thing that can be said about "Peoplecraft" is that not a single billionaire CEO master of this "universal skill set" on the planet recognized the danger of toxic assets. CEO-wannabe skills did nothing to recognize or prevent the world-wide devaluation of corporate values by tens of trillions of dollars.

 

This is exactly what happened to the Boy Scouts of America when Wood Badge replaced Scoutcraft (that which is measurable) with the bundled toxic assets called Leadership Development: Two million Boy Scouts left!

 

Like most corporations in 2008, our corporation lost 30% of its value by replacing Scoutcraft with Peoplecraft (if you measure the "value" of Scouting as its service to youth).

 

AvidSM writes:

 

Once the BSA decided to go with one course to fit all, it realized the woodcraft had to go.

 

Yes, Scoutcraft "had to go."

 

Just as in 1972 when we removed all camping requirements for Eagle and took position-specific training away from Patrol Leaders, Wood Badge declared war on our Congressional Charter.

 

AvidSM writes:

 

You may not agree with this decision, but it makes sense. This change opened up the course to more people - turning more ideas into reality - increasing the benefit to the youth.

 

More people, huh? Increasing the benefit to the youth? 30% of our membership left when we took away the Wood Badge Scoutcraft program.

 

AvidSM writes:

 

You may say this is sacrificing quantity for quality: that the course was opened up to more people, but the changes watered down the curriculum and made it less effective.

 

We certainly agree on that!

 

Patrol Leaders can no longer lead, if you define "Leadership" by what is measurable: Adventure based on physical distance, which is the standard of Baden-Powell and William Hillcourt.

 

AvidSM writes:

 

You may want scouting to change back to the way it was and may have many good reasons and web sites that explain why.

 

Thank you.

 

AvidSM writes:

 

But to vent your frustration by attacking the modern course as the root of all of scoutings evils is just utter nonsense.

 

My point exactly: The only thing that Wood Badge has taught you is how to use Peoplecraft terms like "vent" and "utter nonsense."

 

That is what Leadership Development has done since its invention in 1965: "Peoplecraft's" first target was William Hillcourt himself because he stood against cheating American children out of the Scoutcraft program guaranteed to them by an Act of Congress:

 

Some members were very resistant to the idea of changing the focus of Wood Badge from training leaders in Scoutcraft to leadership skills. Among them was Bill Hillcourt, who had been the first United States Wood Badge Course Director in 1948. Although he had officially retired on August 1, 1965, his opinion was still sought after and respected.

 

Larson later reported, "He fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right."

 

http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html

 

"Vested interest" is the Wood Badge Peoplecraft term for "If the Boy Scouts don't like indoor leadership skills, two million of them can leave."

 

AvidSM writes:

 

Scouting changed and Wood Badge changed with it, not the other way around.

 

That in a nutshell is why Wood Badge is a cult.

 

People ask me why I repeat myself so often. No matter how many times we discuss the timeline, cult members continue to chant the same lies.

 

The evidence is overwhelming that Wood Badge attacked both Scoutcraft and Hillcourt within months of Hillcourt's retirement in 1965. Leadership Development's brutal assault on Scoutcraft took place in 1972:

 

In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill.

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/index.htm

 

Compare that 1972 attack on Scoutcraft with our 2010 goal to recruit 100,000 Hispanics who hate Scoutcraft:

 

Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in CHARACTER development AND LEADERSHIP skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us....when we say 'we want to take your twelve-year-old son but you can't come' we're making a mistake there. We have to engage an entire family... For example one of our pilot programs over the last recent years has been Scouting and soccer...

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

 

Hispanics are the new holy grail of Wood Badge, because to white millionaires they represent the goal announced in 1972: To move Scouting away from Scoutcraft.

 

The 2010 "Peoplecraft" dream is of twelve-year-old Boy Scouts who have not slept in tent even two (2) years into the program: TWO YEARS!

 

AvidSM writes:

 

Committed leaders not only talk about how to make things better, they turn their ideas into action. The purpose of the modern Wood Badge course is to turn ideas into reality for the benefit of the youth in the program. He must effectively communicate, resolve conflict, make people comfortable with change, form teams, etc.

 

Yes, we can all agree on that.

 

If the Chief Scout Executive succeeds in recruiting per year 100,000 Hispanics who hate camping, then in a few years "the purpose of modern Wood Badge" will be to "turn their ideas into action...into reality -- for the benefit of the youth" whom Wood Badge protects from sleeping in tents. I'm sure that you, AvidSM, are a man of your word: You will be out there "making people comfortable with change" by teaching Spanish, and LITERALLY "forming teams:" Soccer teams.

 

AvidSM writes:

 

We all can agree that you dont need a lot of outdoor skills to take the course now.

 

Yes, we all can agree on that as well!

 

So let us search for common ground, a common understanding that will make us all as weepy as a Wolf Den Leader singing "Back to Gilwell:"

 

Be it resolved that Wood Badge gives deep meaning and purpose to the indoor office lives of adults rather than the outdoor lives of Boy Scouts!

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[UCEagle72]

Kudu --

 

I live in an area where there are a significant number of Hispanics participating in Scouting, and from what I just saw at our Camporee, I think your generalities are misplaced.

 

Maybe you should discuss them with Tico Perez, the National Commissioner, he was a member of a number of summer camp staffs as a youth - he may have a different interpretation than you do.

 

Do I like all the changes I have seen in WB and even SM/ASM Fundamentals? No. And I do what I can, from within, to fix things.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Brent your assessment is fair enough.

 

Scoutfish, you will probably have a good time and learn a bunch, the reason I believe you will is because you don't have a very long history in scouting.

 

I had been involved too deeply for too long before I took the course. Heck I helped with the NYLT a couple of times.

[Kudu]

UCEagle72 writes:

 

I live in an area where there are a significant number of Hispanics participating in Scouting, and from what I just saw at our Camporee, I think your generalities are misplaced.

 

No, UC, that's not me on the video:

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

 

 

 

[UCEagle72]

Kudu --

 

More than one of us have said that the CSE doesn't know what happens in units ... so I'm not going down that path. He's not here. He does not see what the young men are capable of doing, so, I don't worry too much about his opinions.

 

Now, talk to Tico ... he was a Scout, made Eagle, grew up in this area, worked at Summer Camp ... I think you'll get a better perspective.

 

Will 100% of the new Latino scouts be campers, experts in first aid, pioneering, cooking over an open fire, hike the AT ... probably not, but then again, from my years in the trenches, neither will 100% of the Black, Caucasian, or whateverothersocialgroupyoucaretoname Scouts.

 

I am working with two units right now that are part of the Hispanic Initiatives/ScoutReach program -- no, it's not easy for us "traditional scouters" -- but I am glad I have experience with International Scouting to help me understand some of the issues we are working to overcome.

 

[sbemis1]

Scoutfish,

Here's to hoping you are one of the one's that comes out with a favorable view.

I was not, although to be fair I did not complete the course.

A classmate also was not, and he completed both the course and ticket (one of the items was mine, I believe).

[Eagle92]

Sad but true story. I had a Hispanic Cub Scout drop from my den because "all they want to do is camping and not the meetings." I only found out after calling the dad several times and discussing this with the new pack chairman.

 

Needless to say I hope that contact info is the same in a few years so I can get him back involved with a webelos den and/or into a troop.