Tents on Campouts

[Owl62]

I see no reason to force Scouts to use troop owned tents. All of the troops I have been in have had at least some troop owned tents. For the Scouts that had no tent of their own, they had the troop tents to use. But many Scouts have their own, some have even earned the money to buy their own.

 

We have always had an understanding that personal equipment is the responsibility of the owner and the troop is not responsible for it.

 

[Mike F]

We're like most -- we have troop tents, but guys can bring their own and about half do. We have less damage to personal tents - at least one of the boys in there has a strong sense of ownership.

 

I'm curious about an under-current about limiting tents to no more than 2 scouts - even if they're made for more (up to 4). Is this to limit after-hours horseplay by limiting critical mass? My home troop in the '70s used big old Army surplus tents that held an entire patrol - usually even on cots. (No floor.) They had a long center pole (8-10'?) and 12 ropes that pulled the tent out into a cone-shape, with 3 sides that hung straight down and could be rolled up. These tents were awesome - could immediately find us at any camporee! I haven't seen any like them in many years. (We had other Army surplus gear for backpacking. Not light by todays standards, but rugged. Had to make sure you were set up on a local high spot nothing had floors.) We learned to control the discipline after lights out and I think we benefited by having the entire patrol together.

 

[ozemu]

Mike F I wonder about the no more than 2 scouts idea myself. Like Eammon wrote earlier here we camp the entire patrol in one tent (or close to it - the girls get a second tent so the patrol now covers 2 tents; but canvass is only so thick isnt it?) Anyway the patrol eats, sleeps and plays together.

 

They zonk out quickly (the newest ones get used to camping after a couple) and the PL can always give a judicious goodnight Johnnie if they dont. Only once have I had to tell the older ones to pack it in.

 

No sulking in the corner on our camps and the lack of privacy is not a big hurdle. They become less precious about their physical condition when they all kip together - not a bad thing I suspect. A little easier to run activities when raining too.

 

Vive le difference though.

[hotdesk]

Our troop has plenty of Euraki 4 men and 2 6 men Euraki tents. The only time we have a limit on how many scouts can sleep in one tent is during Summer Camp and that is because of the weather. The rest of the year it is what ever the scouts want.

 

About bringing personal tents, we allow that. Our new Scoutmaster (been doing it since Feburary) allows the scouts to bring personal equipment just as long as they are willing to take the blame for any damage done to it and they will share it if needed.

 

This has stopped some scouts from bringing some of the equipment they used to bring and has allowed some boys to start bringing certain this w/ them.

[Bob White]

I support the two-person limit in tents except for winter camping. When we will allow the occupoancy limit of the tent. The reason is noise control. In the more comfortable weather I have noticed that scouts get more rest with two scouts to a tent. Once the fiorst scout falls asleep the other soon follows. But, with three or more in the tent as long as two are awake the conversation continues.

 

I make the exception in winter becomes of the shared warmth factor.

 

As far as whose tent we use, We have enough troop tents for the Scout members, but we do not discourage scouts from bringing personal equipment, as long as they take responsibility for it's care and stick to the occupancy guidelines. I just don't see it as that big a deal.

 

Bob White

[Proud Eagle]

OK, whoever hijacked Bob White's account should go ahead and turn himself in.

 

We all know that Bob White would never make a Troop rule, since all needed rules are in the program as is.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I just really counld't help myself.

[Bob White]

When we train the scouts in the Outdoor Code we discuss what it means to be considerate in your outdoor manner. We ask them what makes more noise a group of scouts in a tent or two in a tent? They know, and if you discuss it honestly they will answer honestly. Since less is quieter and we have agreed to be considerate the scouts conclude that camping in pairs is better. If they are made responsible to carry their own gear, and if they are taught good camping skills, they choose smaller tents.

 

We don't make rules, we teach scouting.

 

Bob White

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

I guessed that you probably had some work around for that. I was just giving you a little virtual elbowing in the ribs. I think you are spot on about smaller numbers being quieter. However, I have to wonder why it is even a problem. I know in my troop everyone just understands that 2 is what works best. Most of the Scouts have had the experience of being stuck in a tent with 3, and everyone's gear, and doesn't want to repeat it. Though for backpacking I think the troop has been going 3 to a tent lately, since the gear stays out of the tent, and weight is an issue.

 

Oh, we use the Eureka Timberlines. I think they are the older Outfitter 4 model. (before the hi/low ventalation system was added) Those tents all smell funny but they keep you dry if you set it up right. Only time I have ever gotten wet was in Canada after a long rain storm. The water came up through the floor because one edge of my ground cloth was sticking out and collecting water. D'oh!

[Region 7 Voyageur]

In our Troop the scouts sleep by patrol. No scout is allowed to sleep alone. (buddy system) Scouts usually pair up for tenting arrangements. If a patrol had an odd number attending an event then there has to be one tent in that patrol with three scouts. The scouts that have to triple up use a larger size Eurika tent. Most campouts have one patrol with an odd number of scouts. I do not see any problem with having more than two scouts in a tent.

[Proud Eagle]

The reason we have problems with 3 to a tent is all the gear. Each Scout seems to bring a duffel full of stuff at least half their own size. Plus 3 presents greater opportunity for personality conlfict. It just isn't an optimal situation. Now, for backpacking the packs stay outside so no issue with gear in the way.

 

When we have odd numbers we handle it one of two ways.

If the odd number is with the group of younger scouts we go 3 to a tent.

If the odd number involves older Scouts, they have the option of one tenting alone.

I don't really see this as a buddy system problem because the older Scout is still within spitting distance of the other members of the patrol. (usually just a few feet away)

[OldGreyEagle]

I thought I had posted this already, but I cant find it, which either means I was dreaming, which, no Offense Scouter-Terry but if I start dreaming I am posting here, it may be time to taper off, OR I posted it into the wrong thread.

 

Anyway, the troop started to get into backpacking. We had a demo from a troop dad that was really into lightweight back packing. Next camp out could have been titled "Attack of the Bivvy Sacks". Its tough to stick two kids in there.

[NWScouter]

Out here most troops use back packing tents both troop owned and individual owned. The troop I was Scoutmaster had a few troop owned ones. IT encourged the younger scouts to use them and not to go out and not go out and buy one until they were older. Most of the older Scouts and the active hiking parents ended up buying their own. Even when we car camped (dirty words in that troop), the Scouts used backbacking tents.

Hey I gave my daughter and son-in-law for their wedding last spring a REI Half Dome Plus.

[ozemu]

Proud Eagle and Bob White have a slant on things here that for once I dont agree with.

 

Tents are a tool. You chose that which suits your purpose.

 

My point previously is that different types of camping and methods of implementing Patrol System etc will dictate that the tent issue may need to change throughout your Scouts choice of programme. For us we camp in large six person tents in summer generally although sometimes use fly sheets only or even cardboard boxes. In winter it is generally two - three person tents or small fly sheets again as we normally hike.

 

There is no all round best tent and as for how many in a tent - that is a matter of experience, boy-led supervision and training. Noise in tents is not an issue with us more than once a year (we camp monthly or more - I think that is why our Scouts are comfortable in various situations).

 

Noise and gear being lost are training matters - if using two person tents teaches them to deal with these issues then okay. But if yours is a way of avoiding the issues then in my humble opinion I believe that you are missing an opportunity here. They can learn to get along and be organised and they seem to me to be useful life skills.

 

PS it really puts the PL in charge in the big tents. Of course the BSA programme has a wider age range and that may not suit - genuine ignorance on my part there.

[Bob White]

I think you misunderstood my post ozemu. We do teach tents as tools not toys. We do teach them to select their tentage based on multiple factors. But few troops have the resources to own multiple types of tents, and I can say from my experience that few families purchase their own tents when they know that the troop supplies them. So we have to stock the most usable style for our camping situations. One thing we consider is impact. Large tents tend to have greater physical and audio impact than smaller tents. Plus smaller tents are easier for the scouts to assemble and care for. So there is more method to our madness but I was only addressing one issue at the time I posted.

 

Now when you say you use a 6-person tent, you don't mention how many Scouts you put in there.

 

Bob White

 

[Proud Eagle]

We don't have a troop rule that says we must use the Eurekas for every camp out no matter the situation. Instead those are the tents the troop owns and are therefore what are used on most outings. As Bob White says most troops don't have the money for mutlitple types of tents. I suppose we could use our fundraisers to buy new tents and stick the boys with all the cost the troop currently covers, but that doesn't seem like a good idea at all.

 

Now when we went to Philmont for example, some people purchased backpacking tents (and at least one person already had one). Those individuals used those tents for Philmont and for several outings before Philmont. Those that did not have their own tents (or a tent partner that did) used the Philtents provided at Philmont. We do not expect our Scouts to purchase their own tents. We do expect them to have certain basic equipment, but not tents. If someone has a tent they will be allowed to use it when appropriate. (Such as when there are not enough troop tents, or their tent is better suited to the conditions.) Most of our youth that have tents choose to use troop tents when given the option because troop tents are often larger, dryer, and sturdier than their tents.

 

Truth be told I don't know of any outing ever even suggested by our troop that our troop tents would not have been able to handle. Certainly they are not always the perfect tent for the job, but they always seem to get the job done.

 

Oh, and we do teach about the trade offs of using different types of tents. Unfortunately with tent technology always changing and insufficient numbers of different types of tents/shelters available we can only teach the basics rather than letting every Scout learn from first hand experience.

 

Personally I would really like to get some nice big wall tents (either the BSA version, some civilian sort, or maybe GP mediums, or best would be the new modular military tents) that would be able to hold a patrol size group in comfort for such things as summer camp. Unfortunately that would eat up too much of the troop budget on something that isn't necessary.