Re-Train ALL Adult s who had Training Prior to 2000?

[fgoodwin]

I know you guys get tired of hearing me say this, but this is another classic example where the OP should be referred back to whoever started this rumor.

 

Technically, Joni4TA did not ask this group to confirm or deny the rumor -- she just kinda tossed it out there, and we all see the result.

 

[edited to add:] I note that FScouter did suggest the OP get it in writing.(This message has been edited by fgoodwin)

[evmori]

No training is ever for naught, sometimes we need a refresher. We take driver tests every so often.

 

We have had a poster or two who would state no training is better than poor training!

 

I only took my drivers test when I was 16. No requirement to retake it although that wouldn't be a bad idea!

 

[FScouter]

Why would no training be better, Ed?

[Gonzo1]

A way to get "re-trained" is to recruit different scouters to serve on staff for various training sessions. That way, other scouters will get re-trained by being conducting training and by being around and hearing the material.

 

[LongHaul]

Ed,

      Pennsylvania does not ask you take a rules of the road test and an eye test every so often? 

Getting "retrained" via teaching what you may not know to someone seeking training to me just spotlights our problem. The concept of having a training "team" just doesn't seem to be very popular.

 LongHaul

[Stosh]

Maybe the councils/national ought to pull their heads out of their butts long enough to consider an annual, one-two hour, refresher course that gets everyone up-to-date with the most current ideas coming down the road rather than dumping the whole truckload on everyone and treating them like they don't know anything. I can visualize this now. All the new up-start scout leaders with the latest and greatest book learnin' are going to teach the 30 year veterans how to run a scout program? Am I the only one that sees "stupid" written all over it?

 

I have often wondered why no one ever did a refresher course, there are a lot of organizations, even volunteer ones that require so many hours of continuing education to maintain their certification. This one-two hour program could be offered annual at University of Scouting, at Roundtables, special evenings, etc. and gives everyone a heads up on all the new developments in scouting.

 

I hold training patch and training knots for Cubbing, Webelos, Scouting and Venturing. There's no way I'm starting over. You can have the trained patch, but does that mean the beads and knots go too?

 

It'll never happen and if it does, I will find more worthwhile ways to waste my time.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

Why would no training be better, Ed?

 

Dunno FScouter. I'm not one of those who feel that way. You should ask those who do.

 

Pennsylvania does not ask you take a rules of the road test and an eye test every so often?

 

No they don't.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[RangerT]

In my council the mandate has come down in letter form from the SE to all scouters stating that with rechartering for next year that ALL registered scouters in every unit must be fully trained, including committee members, in fast start,youth protection, new leader essentials, and the appropriate basic for their unit. In addition the leaders working with the youth directly must also complete advanced training on a schedule to be decided by the council. "Failure to adhere to these policies will result in the unit not being allowed to recharter for the new year." One other point mentioned was that all training must have been completed within the last five years. So in my council it is not a rumor but a reality, the volunteers are all fuming mad and some threatening to fold their units. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. My feeling is what about the youth who will unfortunately be the losers in the end.

[Stosh]

I seriously doubt the council will shut down the units because the leaders are not re-trained. It's a threat that they cannot back. The councils are evaluated every year by the number of scouts and units they have registered. If they were to lose half their units because of some stupid ruling they stuck out there, I'm sure national will step in and straighten them out. If it's not required by national, the council will have a lot of explaining to do.

 

Stosh

[Apache Bob]

RangerT - please get back to us and let us know what happens in your Council.

Would also like to know where your SE gets his new job.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

Our Council decided that all LEAD unit Scouters (e.g. SM's) had to be "fully trained" or no recharter. When achieving this proved a problem, part of the response was a nine-hour IOLS course authorized by the SE (which, per "Scouting" [magazine], Scouting Division has not authorized).

 

There has been no suggestion in our Council that training has to fall within any particular date to count for the "fully trained" rule.

 

As to Wood Badgers who took the old course taking the new course, in our recent course we were expected not to wear our beads (Makes sense to me.), but they go back on otherwise. After all, we earned them.

[John-in-KC]

Tahawk...

 

I guess that comes under the heading that bad training is better than good training.

 

Sigh.

[RangerT]

Well I met with the council SE today about the letter asking him if he had a directive from National to implement this change, his answer was "NO". He went on to relate that this was decided at the last executive board meeting unanimously. I then asked him why this action was necessary, I quote, "The numbers of scouts in the council has been dwindling at an alarming rate, the quality of some of the programs I and my staff observed were horrible and I decided it was time for action." I then asked him how many COR's were invited to participate in this meeting and he answered none. You see in my council the exec. board meetings are held at one of the members houses and outsiders are not welcomed, even though the COR's are supposed to be present. The SE was also a little embarassed because I am now the COR for the crew which has been growing steadily in membership over the years and is the largest in the council with over 60 members. I related to him that I did not believe that he and the board had the authority to issue such a mandate and that most of the adult leaders in the council were fuming mad. He smiled and said "that's because they don't know whats good for them." I said to him that this was not going to be good for the council or the youth and all he was doing was creating a lot of turmoil and he would lose many more scouts and adult leaders and he said he felt he was doing the right thing.

 

My crew is real close to the county line and if push comes to shove we do have another meeting site available owned by the CO that would put us in the neighboring council, and that SE has told me that he would love to have our crew in his council, so my crew has a way out. It just irkes me about this SE, few of the COR's seem to care enough to demand another exec board meeting to discuss this issue. So I guess I will have to wait and see.

[Scouter&mom]

WOW!! I can't imagine our SE trying to force training on some of our leaders by threatening to refuse charter renewal. I do think training should be on-going for everyone. We have a mix of feelings about training in our council and district. Some who think the old WB is the only course that was any good, and those that think the new courses are better, and some of us in the middle who see advantages and disadvantages to both. Just this week, I heard a SM say that the NYLT syllabus was missing all the leadership training that was in the old JLT course and that he doesn't thing the NYLT course is very good. While I have not taken the class (I am female, so couldn't be in Boy Scouts growing up and way too old now), I have read through my son's book. When I mentioned that there was lots of leadership (people management) skills in the book, that it included many of the things that were in my graduate Organizational Management course, I took a few years ago, He couldn't accept that that is what current research and trends recommend. So some will be glad to re-take classes (if cost and location are reasonable), and some will refuse to even acknowledge that something good can come out of them. I just can't imagine the SE threatening unit charters when their very job is a numbers game.

[Gold Winger]

"The numbers of scouts in the council has been dwindling at an alarming rate, the quality of some of the programs I and my staff observed were horrible and I decided it was time for action."

 

Training alone won't fix the problem. The desire to implement the training is what will make it work.

 

I worked with a basketball ref years back who implemented a rule correctly. It wasn't cruicial, critical or game deciding so I didn't say anything until the next time out. I recalled the situation to him and explained that there was a case book situation that went counter to his call. He looked at me with that cocked head that dogs use when they don't understand what's going on then he said, "I've been doing this for 20 years and I don't care what the book says. I'm not calling it that way in my game." After the game, I called my assigner and asked to never work a game with him again.

 

The first hurdle is to be willing to do it the "right way" whatever that way may be.