Re-Train ALL Adult s who had Training Prior to 2000?

[Joni4TA]

Are they NUTS?

 

I just heard my District and possibly Council is considering making all adult leaders who have been trained prior to the year 2000 - RE-DO their training so they have the training under the newest, freshest syllabus.

 

In other words, everything we've done BEFORE 2000 - they won't accept, and we won't be considered "TRAINED"

 

This seems a bit extreme! And silly too!

 

What about folks who took all their essentials and WB prior to this date? We should just discount that and toss it out the window?

 

Goodbye Scoutmastership Fundamentals..... Sayonara Wood Badge......

This is very upsetting.

(This message has been edited by Joni4TA)

[Eamonn]

I'd really have to take the time to give this some thought.

My first reaction was that I don't think it will ever fly.

While I do know that a District really doesn't have the authority to demand something like this. I'm not 100% sure if a Council can? I don't think a Council can. But I'm not sure.

The 2010 Jamboree Leadership application did say that some Troop leadership positions had to be filled by people who had taken the 21st Century Wood Badge. I have heard that some people called and were informed that this was an error. So far I have not seen the change in anything that National has sent out.

I'm a little worried when someone says that they have talked with "Someone at National". Very often they haven't!! And rarely if ever do they say who they spoke with?

Eamonn.

[scoutldr]

"Just say NO"

[evmori]

Interesting! So all that prior training is for naught? Doesn't seem Kosher to me!

[FScouter]

Ask to see the written announcement.

[allangr1024]

I did want to be on staff for a 21st century woodbadge course to see what is was about. I took the last old syllabus course from our council in 2001. Great fun.

 

I was told by the council training staff that only 21st century woodbadge graduates could teach a 21st century course, and that I could take the new course along with other scouters.

 

This person said that for the fist few 21st century courses the staff members were a problem, since they would comment to the scouters taking the course what had changed and how much the old woodbadgers did not like the changes. So the council training staff put a stop to that.

 

I wonder, if I took the new course (which our WB staff told us we would NEVER be able to do,) would I still be a BEAR (oh yah), or would I have to become a (sigh) badger or a fox? I would miss the weather rock and unofficial games that characterized WB in the past, and are no longer there.

 

Do other councils do this? Is there a refresher course for old WB'ers to see all the benefits of the 21st century? I wish there was.

 

 

[LongHaul]

No training is ever for naught, sometimes we need a refresher. We take driver tests every so often. To be eligible to referee soccer games I must take a test every year one the laws and their application. Why is it such a terrible thing to ask those providing program to youth to take a refresher course every so often? As for Scoutmaster Specifics not much of the information has changed but the manner in which it is presented has changed. As for WB the entire focus of the course has changed. Most of the difference can be found in the trainers and requirements of the local councils. National provides a syllabus but local councils actually decide what qualifies as trained. National considers you trained if your local council says your trained. I've been to 6 hour IOLS and 1 hour youth protection training. Baloo and IOLSWL together in 6 hours. The only thing that really seems to be regulated is WB.  If your trainers are good I say retake prior trainings, who knows you may learn something.

LongHaul

[MarkS]

They can have my beads back when they can pry them from my cold dead fingers.

 

I don't see how they can call on everyone to REDO training when training is not required in order to be a volunteer. I'm not aware of an experiation date for the basic training I took. Nor am I sure how retaking training will provide any new information a Scoutmaster who's been active the last eight years wouldn't already know.

[Tokala]

I've often posed the question about how the standards set for Wood Badge for the 21st Century were set. Good trainers are being eliminated from the talent pool simply because they completed a different syllabus. Training skills aren't related to a book, but to the individual.

 

As one who completed Boy Scout Wood badge 20 years ago and staffing the 21st century courses, it was a difficult translation. It can be done, but it would be simpler if I had taken the course.

 

The 11 leadership skills are still valid methods; they're just not what the BSA is using to train adult leaders. I don't think that I would surrender my beads (and I staffed an old course) to take the new course just so I could be eligible for staff. There's other avenues available to help train leaders than Wood badge.

 

I don't see where a Council could force people to take training courses repeatedly; however, they do seem to be able to do what they want sometimes. The cost would be prohibitive for some volunteers and that could adversely effect all those numbers that the professionals get graded on for advancement.

[scoutldr]

I was District Training Chair in 2003-2005 time frame. The syllabi were woefully outdated and inadequate then. Unless they have recently been updated, I don't see the point in making people be "re-trained" (Hey...do we get a new "RETRAINED" strip"...where's Troy when we need him???)

 

At the very least, they should offer the re-training free of charge. I'll be durned if I'm gonna pay for it twice.

[LongHaul]

Just curious scoutldr, if the syllabi were outdated and inadequate in 2003-2005 just 3 years after the revision what were they before the revision? Say when most of those complaining about having to be retrained took training originally.

LongHaul

(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[John-in-KC]

allangr1024 wrote in part...

 

I was told by the council training staff that only 21st century woodbadge graduates could teach a 21st century course, and that I could take the new course along with other scouters.

 

There was a time, I think prior to 2006, when someone who had taken WB pre WB21C could staff under grandfathering. That time is now over, by dictate of the National Council.

 

This person said that for the fist few 21st century courses the staff members were a problem, since they would comment to the scouters taking the course what had changed and how much the old woodbadgers did not like the changes. So the council training staff put a stop to that.

 

As well they should have. Your WB beads from the old course are as special and valuable to you as mine from the current course. I don't care if the course is WB or Army Command and General Staff: The course staff presents the material to its charges, and provide them a roadmap to resources so they can get to the analytic, if not synthesis, level of knowledge.

 

I wonder, if I took the new course (which our WB staff told us we would NEVER be able to do,) would I still be a BEAR (oh yah), or would I have to become a (sigh) badger or a fox? I would miss the weather rock and unofficial games that characterized WB in the past, and are no longer there.

 

Yes, you can take the new course! As far as patrols, I hope you've long ago figured out the object of patrolling was to mix strengths and weaknesses. You'd be thrown back in the hopper. As I recall, some here have been in your shoes, and now have two different Critters to call home.

 

What do you mean, no weather rock? C-40-05 had the weather rock, and the service patrol had to do a limerick for the thing each time it went to Gilwell Field.

 

Do other councils do this? Is there a refresher course for old WB'ers to see all the benefits of the 21st century? I wish there was.

 

As I said, you can take again... though I'd take out of council (expand your resources).

 

 

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters,

 

I have difficulty with Districts and Councils that state that Scouters are to be retrained.

 

What the concentration is (as usually stated in the previous Quality Unit Award and the current Centennial Unit Awards), should be to achieve 100 percent training.

 

It should not be to retrain seasoned leaders. It should be to train those new leaders and committee members which are not yet trained.

 

Now for all leaders, they should attend regular Roundtable, and ocassional supplimental and advanced training. If they attend roundtable, they should learn and obtain the newest changes to merit badges, to advancement, to rank requirements, and safety, as well as picking up skill ideas for the programs.

 

I would expect National to be concerned about safety and program, as well as making sure Scouters are up to date with current changes. But most all significant changes are distributed via annual highlights, and usually demonstrated at monthly roundtables.

 

I would not expect National to be concerned about a veteran Cubmaster or veteran Scoutmaster going thru Faststart, NLE, and Specifics, to be retrained, however, I highly expect that they understand current safety restrictions and program/advancement procedures.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[evmori]

I think people should take refresher courses now & then but to require people to retake all the training is a little overkill! A lot of the older training was excellent!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

"I just heard my District and possibly Council is considering ..."

 

This sounds like nothing more than one of hundreds of thoughts that come out a brainstorming session of a training committee, or a parking lot after-meeting. Thousands of ideas get run up the flagpole, how many are adopted?? Open discussion helps folk coalesce thoughts and ideas.

 

Reading all these responses, I find it far more disturbing anyone would take a simple rumor and believe it to be a mandate from the evil empire.