Lost Webelos

[friendlyduck]

I working on my on PHD in The College of Commissioner Science, the above is my topic. I am District Commissioner, Trailbazer District Mid-Amrica Council. Our Advancement Chairman provided me with a document showing fewer Webelos moving on to troops in our District. I have information this is not an isoloated thing, and has been a problem for a long time nationwide. My task is to get as much feed back from fellow Scouters as to why this happens. I have some ideas, but do not want to "lead" the answers. I would appreciate any ideas with any type of supporting statements you care to leave. I would like to finish my paper by March 03 If you leave your name and email I will repond. I will, with your permission use you as a scource in the paper. Thank You

[evmori]

I feel one of the reason is Boy Scouts is very different than Cubs. The boys are expected to do more for themselves & a lot of them don't like it! Just my opinion.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[firstpusk]

Not only is scouting different for the boys, it is different for the parents. Often they don't understand how the boy scout program works. If the parents aren't comfortable, they are not as likely to support and encourage moving on to scouts. At the same time, they are being asked to give more as athletic programs demand a greater level of commitment.

[sctmom]

People see Webelos graduation as an END. Boy Scouts is not seen as a continuation of scouting.

 

I have seen this 3 years in a row. Just got off the phone with this year's Webelos II den leader and one remark he made was "I don't know if many of my boys will be active in Boy Scouts. They have sports and such." This is the THIRD year I've heard that from parents or leaders. "Well we did the Cub Scout thing, enough of that."

 

Webelos graduation give everyone a nice tidy time to get out and still feel they "completed" scouting.

 

[LauraT7]

I think that's only part of the problem - that there's just such a BIG jump between Cubs and Boy Scouting - in that area - Girl scouts does a better job by having groups that go up by age/grade ranges, and the changes are more gradual. BSA could either make Webelos more like Boy Scouts, or make a separate group for the 6th & 7th graders (under 1st class)

 

there is also a HUGE difference between badge and advancement requirements - Cub advancements, even at webelos level are SO easy, and BSA keeps revising the Merit Badges and making them longer and much more complicated. It's great to have so much variety in subject, but there needs to be more middle ground between Basketry and the 3-4 pages of requirements for Swimming!

 

But the biggest thing is the lack of involvement betweent the programs. In our area, the only involvement is the ONE meeting and ONE activity required for Arrow of Light. And making that ONE activity happen is difficult, because the rules for Webelos are more restrictive than the Rules for Scouts - you can't just invite them along on ANY troop activity, you have to create a special one to invite them to.

 

If the boys worked with the webelos on a regular basis, then they would have friends or older scouts they knew & liked already in the troop, and would want to move up.

 

The timing also stinks. 6th grade is a time that is rough on most boys - going into Jr high, dealing with multiple teachers, a new school, new kids and different and harder homework requirements - Sometimes the culture shock of the tougher Scouting Program is like going to school all over again - and with so many demands on them at that time - scouting looses out.

 

I don't know - what if they moved Webelos up at the beginning of 5th grade? then they'd still have their familiar schools/ classmates, and scouting would be new - by the time they got to 6th grade Scouting would be familiar and a "safe haven" while dealing with the newness of Jr high? But the program would still need to address the vast difference in requirements between the two - The responsibility level and everything is just a big adjustment for everyone.

 

the other problem is boys who don't even attempt Scouting after cubs. I had a few in my den that just DID NOT want to go further - even some who did the visits required to get their Arrow of Light, but that said flat out that they were NOT going to be in any troop.

 

To those boys, usually the parental involvment is not there anyway, scouting appears too "uncool", or they don't really like the out-of-doors - BSA is really heavy into camping and physical activity - and not organized sports - which also draws these boys away.

 

I think all youth organizations have a problem with losing kids at that age - but i do think BSA could have better retention than it does!

[red feather]

ditto with lauraT7.

 

It is important for new scouts to see older scouts in uniform , at meetings,having fun doing scout stuff. Our troop invites 1 and 2nd yr Webloes to various activities to encourage thier involvement in Boy Scouts. Seems to help.

 

To retain new scouts requires real effort on the part of the troop leadership. Making it fun for the young scouts while getting them to believe it is cool to do high adventure, cooking camping, etc.

 

Recruitment and retention is tough and reasons for having these problems vary from region to region and troop to troop. Just have to be inventive and openminded to oportunities.

 

YIS

[Twocubdad]

I have a hunch that many Webelos are intimidated by joining a Troop with a lot of much older Scouts. All through cubs, they've been with boys their own age. With all the other changes between the programs, it can be intimidating.

 

Like I said, just a hunch. Maybe something to consider.

[Pack38Scouter]

I can give a good example ... our Pack has an average of 22 second-year Webelos graduating each year. We have a brother Pack that averages around 20 boys a year as well. We have two troops in the vicinity of our Packs and several other within the 10 miles radius. The two troops borned out of the Packs. With 40 boys graduating from Cub Scout each year for the past 6 years ... one would think that we would have two strong troops of 80+ boys or many strong troops of 40+ boys, but on the contrary, we have one troop that has only 30 boys of which only 20 is active. The other troop has 40 boys of which 25 is active. That's only 45 active boyscout in a community that has well over 250 Cub Scouts each year!

 

From what I can observe is the fact that these troops (before this year and before we ... as parents spoke up) do not actively recruit Cub Scout! They automatically assumes that the Webelos have no where to go but to them! They make no efforts of presenting the scouting spirits or values. Of course the political arena is not what I am calling nice either! They just don't like to share "the sand box!" As a result, some of the Webelos from previous year went outside of our District to another troop in another District ... (as long as the boys are in scouting ... it doesn't matter ...) Some went to one troop and the rest just quit scouting. The troops need to advertise themselves and actively recruit. Without it ... sports and other interests will take over!

 

I do notice one thing .... when you have a strong Webelos program that resembles a scouting program ... most of the boys will continue. When you have a weak Webelos program where the Webelos Den Leader is just putting up with the year ... looking toward the AOL as the end of his/her involvement then he/she will pass that "terminal" mentality to the boys and their parents.

 

As a Cubmaster, I am trying to motivate my Webelos Leaders to put on a Webelos program that involve all Webelos Den Patrols .... i.e. reducing the silos effect. When the Patrols are functioning as a scouting units (camp together, go places together, do activity pin together) ... they develop a sense of comraderes. When you present such activity as Readyman, Outdoorsman, Aquanaut as precursors to Scouting and that these are skills that the boyscouts are learning ... it gives them a new sense of achievement than just another activity pin that they have to earn to graduate. For my son Webelos 2 Patrol, this year we let the boys elect their Patrol Leader and an Assistant Patrol Leader. These two then meet with me and my co-Den Leader for a PLC to lay out the tasks at hand. They met with the other boys (6 of them) and came up with their activities for the year (including 3 campouts, a movie outing, rock-gym climb, lazer zone, activity pin day, troop meetings, etc) ! (Today, we went to see "the Santa Clause 2" as a Patrol! ) You should see the gleams in their eyes when they realized that they have the final saying in what they do! Bottom line ... make it fun and prepare them for the real fun of Boy Scout is the key!

[Bob White]

Friendlyduck,

 

A very good topic. If you can determine what is affecting Webelos transition in your community you could probably find a way to improve the crossover rate and help fullfill the commissioners mission.

 

I would focus on the troops, only because the packs have done their job. They kept the boy interested for 4 years or so and have brought them to the Arrow of Light. In my opinion Webelos recruitment is 99% the responsibility of the troops and most troops do a bad job of it.

 

I would suggest surveying the troops and find out what their membership increases were from January to April of last year, these are the months when most Webelos cross over (you can get these figures form your District Professional). Compare those numbers to how many cubs got their AOL (your district advancement chair should be able to help with that). I would then contact the troops and see how many of these boys remain active in scouting.

 

Then ask questions like.

Do you have an individual assigned to work with Webelos Dens during the year?

Do you have a scout acting as a Webelos Den Chief?

How many Webelos dens did you invite to a troop meeting?

How many came?

How many Webelos dens did you invite to a troop outing?

Do you use the New Patrol Method?

Do you have an Assistant Scoutmaster just for the new scouts?

Do you have a Troop Guide assigned to each New Scout Patrol?

Do you use the First Class Emphasis program?

Do you have a orientation night for new members and their families?

 

Then compare how the recruitment and retention rate in a troop compares to the number of the above mentioned program elements they use.

 

I hope you will share the results with us.

Good Luck

 

Bob White

 

[Mike F]

friendlyduck,

Thank you for bringing this up!

The answers to Bob White's list of questions will reveal a lot.

To his list, I would add:

 

What did the Webelos do at the meeting(s) they visited?

 

My younger son and his Webelos den went through this last year. At the first troop we visited, they sent the Webelos off into a separate room to have 2 of the boy leaders from Troop talk for an hour about all the stuff they would be doing. (Parents were in different room talking with SM.) It was not all friendly or encouraging. Sure, they talked about camping and all, but my son said they stressed how much different Boy Scouts was from Cub Scouts -- tougher, etc. Bored the boys listening to an hour of talking. After that night, none of the other boys had any interest in joining and wouldn't go visit another Troop.

 

I persisted and dragged my now-less-than-enthusiastic son to a couple more Troops. Not as bad, but basically the same thing -- lots of talk and no action.

 

Finally visited a Troop where they stuck him in a Patrol and he participated in the evening program. -- lots of action, little talk. What a difference!!! He insisted I stop by the Scout Shop to get the numbers he needed for his uniform because he was definitely joining that troop.

 

With his encouragement, 3 of his Webelos buddys have since visited, 2 have joined, and we're working on more.

[evmori]

Bob posted some great questions! He also stated to focus on the Troop as the Pack has done their job. But have they? Have they contacted the Troops in the area about Den Chiefs? Have they invited the Scoutmasters to their Blue & Golds and Pinewood Derbys, etc.? Have they helped prepare the Webelos and their parents for Boy Scouts?

 

This is a two way street. The Troops need to be involved with the Packs and the Packs need to be involved with the Troops.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bob White]

Good Questions Ed, but let me explain why I feel the responsibility is on the troop. The Packs already have these boys and have kept them active and advancing for years. No matter what more they do, at the end of Webelos 2, these boys must leave Cub Scouts. Where they go is up to the efforts of troops to recruit and keep them.

 

"Have they contacted the Troops in the area about Den Chiefs?"

I see that differently. Den Chief is a TROOP position. Did the troop develop Den chiefs and offer them to the packs for assistance?

 

"Have they invited the Scoutmasters to their Blue & Golds and Pinewood Derbys, etc.?"

Did the troop have an adult in contact with the pack year round offering for the troop to assist

in pack events?

 

"Have they helped prepare the Webelos and their parents for Boy Scouts?"

Probably not, they concentrated on delivering the program in the Cub Scout Handbooks. It is our responsibility as troop leaders to deliver what is in the Boy Scout Handbook.

 

Too many troops wait for the cubs to come running in their doors, as if they have nowhere else to go. This is our party, it is our responsibility to invite the guests and make it a good party. Most people won't come to a party they haven't been invited to, and they won't stay if we don't make the feel welcome.

 

When it comes to recruiting and keeping scouts the ball is in our court and we owe a debt of gratitude to the cub leaders who have gotten these boys through the Cub Scoout program.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

 

[Pack38Scouter]

Recruiting is a 2-way street. As I have told my Webelos parents, it is very much like choosing a school for your boy. You want to make sure that your boy will like his classmate and the environment that he will be in. On the flip side, the Boy Scout troops have to be actively recruiting the boys ... making them feel special and wanted. These boys can easily be lost to other troops, to sports, or from scouting all together!

[Rooster7]

Here's my take on this problem

 

There's too much emphasis on the boys. I thought that might get your attention. Actually, I meant it. Here's what I'm trying to say. I believe, too many packs and troops work so hard to make the program appealing to the boys, they forget about the adults. Of course (let's all say it together now) - "Scouting is for the boys!" Yes, I know. But, if we want the boys to continue in the program, we should make it appealing to their parents as well. If the parents are behind it (i.e., "This program is really making a difference in my son's life!" or "This is something I can share with my son!"), there's apt to be a lot more enthusiasm for the program (or rather the next step up). I earnestly believe that the bridging numbers would increase significantly, if more packs and troops worked to gain the commitment and trust of the parents. If the parents are dispassionate about the program, their attitude is likely to spread their sons. And, even if the boys are fired up, a non-committed, disinterested parent may chose not to feed that fire. They may even force their children to give up Scouts in order to channel their efforts elsewhere. Now, for my disclaimers: One, I'm not siding with the parents of these boys. I'm just making an observation. Two, I'm not claiming this to be the number one problem for "lost Webelos", but I do think it is a big contributor.

 

Some suggestions to make parents feel more welcomed and/or passionate about Scouting:

 

1) Don't guard all responsibilities and jobs like their gold. Spread it around a little.

2) Don't lord your knowledge and position over other adults (or kids for that matter).

3) Make sure all parents have an opportunity to visit their sons on a campout(s).

4) Show parents how their son's participation in Scouts will help him become a better person.

5) At least occasionally, find ways to involve the whole family.

6) Solicit the help of all adults (especially new families) and take advantage of them as resources (while they're still willing and interested). Don't wait until "you think their ready"That's usually code for - "It's my job and I don't want to share it". By the time some folks are asked, many are no longer interested.

 

I don't know how systemic the problem I described is, but I've seen examples of the above in different packs and troops. So here's my mantra - "Get the parents involved - often and early".

 

[evmori]

Bob,

I don't disagree just feel it is more of a two way street than you do. Yes the Pack has had them & kept them advancing. But what has the Webelos leader don to prepare them for Boy Scouts? Have they gone camping with a Troop? Do they know how a Boy Scout Troop operates? Has the Troop invited the Webelos camping? Do the Scoutmaster & Cubmaster stay in close contact during the year?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10