What other advance training is out there?

[Basementdweller]

There is a lot of bickering about advanced Leadership training. I missed out on Blackfoot this year, I am attending next year for sure. If Wood Badge isn't it then what else is out there? I have 4 years before my son is old enough for Boy Scouts, I would like to be in a position to be of value to his troop when he is ready.

 

Let the Debate begin?

 

 

[GernBlansten]

You could check out NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School)

 

http://www.nols.edu/courses/

[scoutldr]

What is "Blackfoot"? Must be a local coucil thing.

[Bob White]

Basementdweller are you asking about courses within the BSA, outside of the BSA, related to leadership skills, related to outdoor skills, job specific?

 

To simply ask for all advanced training is like asking what all can you find in a grocery store.

 

Can you be a little more specific?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Basementdweller]

BSA related, I was under the impression that Blackfoot was a national thing, I guess not.

 

What other training leadership training would be on par or superior to Wood Badge for BSA application?

 

With all of the bashing of wood badge I was hoping to find out what the alternative is.

[Bob White]

Well within scouting from a leadership subject standpoint, Wood Badge is the only Boy Scout, Cub Scout. or Venturing course categorized as an advanced course (and Seabadge for Sea Scout leaders).

 

Do not confuse that as being the end of training, or learning, it's not. It's just a category title to separate the difference between the types of training offered by the BSA.

 

There are 4 main categories; Introductory, Basic, Advanced, and Supplementary. Only Wood Badge falls in the Advanced category for Boy Scouts. But there are numerous supplementary avenues of training that allow a person to refresh skills, expand on current skills, or learn new ones.

 

Supplementary courses include; University of Scouting, Roundtable, College of Commissioner Sciences, Show and Do, Philmont Training Center Conferences, and a huge variety of other learning opportuinities as well as locally designed programs.

 

But again do not think that because a course is categorized as "advanced" that is is the end of the learning opportunity.

 

I am not sure what you would expect the "debate" to be about.

[emb021]

Bob White gave a good overview of the different types of BSA training. Recommend you check out the Leadership Training booklet (#34169) from National that lists all the Nationally available courses. They update this about once a year.

 

Personally, I feel there are only 3 'advanced' courses in the BSA: Wood Badge (leadership for ALL Scout leaders), Seabadge (advanced course for Sea Scout leaders), and Powder Horn (outdoor resources course for Venturing and Boy Scout leaders).

 

One area of training that I think too many unit-level leaders overlook are the courses at the Philmont Training Center. There are several courses there aimed at unit-level leaders, not just district/council people. Also, keep an eye out for courses given at the Florida Sea Base.

 

There are, of course, lot of courses available from outside sources. Be mindful that many of them are run by groups that need to make money off the courses, so the costs will be MUCH greater then with the BSA.

 

[emb021]

"What other training leadership training would be on par or superior to Wood Badge for BSA application?"

 

Within the BSA, there is nothing. WB is THE advanced leadership course for all scouters.

 

Can you find courses on par to WB outside of scouting? Yes, but you will find that 1) they wouldn't give you info on how to apply what you learn within scouting 2) you will miss out on the connections/comraderie you will get with your fellow scouters 3) you will pay 3-5 times as much!

 

"With all of the bashing of wood badge I was hoping to find out what the alternative is."

 

There isn't one. Go to WB. Ignore the basing. 99% of it is for the wrong reason. Some people are still p*ssy that WB has (again) changed from what the course was when they took it. So what?!? WB has actually changed several times since it came to the US. Some of the bashing is due to the experiences in their particular course. They either didn't like the people running it or how it was run. Each cource, while they follow the same syllabus, will be a little different due to who is running it and the staff. Almost all CD work hard to ensure a great course and a great experience. But you can't fix things if someone comes in with a wrong mindset or wrong attitude. If you come in with the attitude that you want to learn, something, anything, and not with a chip on your shoulder, then you will probably have a pretty good experience.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Basementdweller - As your son is only a Tiger, you have plenty of time to take all of the training there is out there.

 

As for Blackfoot, from what I can tell online, Blackfoot, is most definately not an advanced training similar to Wood Badge. It is simply a combined Scoutmaster Essentials basic training, and includes New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster Specific, and Intro to Outdoor Skills.

 

I would wait until your son is at least a 4th grade Webelos becfore taking that course.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm goin' to sound like Kudu, eh?

 

Sometimes we do too much emphasizin' of "leadership theory". I'm less adverse to leadership theory than Kudu is. I think it gives folks a good idea or three to try out.

 

Mostly, though, both boys and adults need hard skills before they can ever approach being leaders successfully or comfortably.

 

Gern's mention of NOLS is great and all, if yeh can afford it. They've got an "Outdoor Educator" course which is outstandin'.

 

Consider these other options:

 

Wilderness First Aid

Wilderness First Responder ("advanced" first aid for the woods)

Leave No Trace trainer or Leave No Trace Master courses.

American Canoe Association canoeing sequence.

American Sailing Association sequences.

Hooking up with a local (adult) outdoor club, many of which teach great outdoor skills.

Hooking up with a local college or university outings program, which often teach clinics and outdoor leadership courses.

Finding an outfitter to do a one-week clinic for yeh on a skill you want to learn (climbing, skiing, canyoneering, etc.)

 

There's plenty of others out there. Personally, I don't think anybody should be a Boy Scout leader without at least a current WFA and LNT trainer course to their credit.

 

On da BSA side, BobWhite gave yeh the rundown on options. Don't neglect the vast array of "supplemental" trainin' in his list, eh? A lot of it is very worthwhile. Look for things bein' taught by "real world" experts especially, who have both BSA and outside experience to draw from. There's a world of difference between first aid bein' taught by an experienced scouter and first aid bein' taught by an experienced scouter who is also an EMT instructor.

 

Beavah

 

[emb021]

To piggyback off of Beavah's post, course like WFA and LNT can now be done with the BSA. The BSA has partnered with both Red Cross and LNT to make their courses more accessible to scouters. I know with LNT, that the BSA has made available LNT Master courses available in several venues in the regions, with the hope of training BSA scouters as LNT Masters, who can then provide LNT Training within the BSA.

 

 

[NeilLup]

1) Wood Badge

2) Wood Badge

3) Wood Badge

 

do I need to continue with 4,5 and 6?

 

The bashing is, as others have said, agenda based. For a newer leader, or even for an experienced leader, Wood Badge is THE advanced course to take.

 

Once that is done, the courses the others have suggested are excellent.

 

No one has mentioned training at Philmont Training Center. Cub Scout week is an outstanding experience and you can take the course that you wish. Look it up on-line and, if you wish, ask your council to be invited.

 

Best wishes,

 

Neil Lupton