People Who Are WB Trained Dont Put It To Use

[Joni4TA]

This is so annoying. I have seen where half the adults in a Troop are WB trained, and yet the Troop bites eggs major! What's the point of going to that level of training and then seemingly get nothing at all out of it, and not bothering to pass on what you learned to better the youth you work with? Is it just so you can have the beads dangling from your neck and sing your happy gilwell song? How can those of you who fall in this category of WB Beader live with yourselves as boy scout leaders?(This message has been edited by Joni4TA)

[Lisabob]

Ouch Joni. Sounds to me like you've about reached your frustration point with your troop. Have you thought about stepping back a little bit and re-charging your batteries? Or maybe finding another place besides at the unit-level to serve? I know some people who have enormous talent and energy and just need a different outlet for that energy than they can find at the unit level (especially with troops).

 

Honestly I doubt you'll find many of "those kind" of WB'ers on this forum. Most of the regular posters here strike me as the type who are a) very dedicated and b) very excited about scouting.

 

I have met a few Wood Badge-trained people about whom I've wondered, "why are they in scouting?" But they are few and far between and I bet they were like that before they went to WB too. At the end of the day people tend to conform to their unit's culture. The current WB course is 6 days long. That's often enough to get people out of a rut for a short while (if they've been in one) but if they go right back to a whole group of tired folks who are still in the rut then they'll probably end up there again too before long.

 

Hang in there Joni and don't let this stuff get you down!

 

[Eamonn]

Joni4TA

Have you taken the course?

Ea.

[Kudu]

"Have you taken the course?"

 

Danger, Will Robinson, DANGER!!!!!!

 

Don't answer that Joni4TA, it is a trick question

 

Wood Badge is a cult!

 

"Have you taken the course" is the Wood Badge equivalent of Scientology's "Would you like to take a free personality test?"

 

The question is an Unsinkable Rubber Ducky:

 

If you answer that you have not taken the course then cult members will tell you that you can not judge Wood Badge until you have taken the course.

 

If you answer that you have taken the course then they will counter that you did not do so with an "open mind."

 

This accusation of thought-crime is usually the first in a long barrage of ad hominem attacks which reveal the true nature of Wood Badge.

 

Joni4TA writes:

 

"I have seen where half the adults in a Troop are WB trained, and yet the Troop bites eggs major! What's the point of going to that level of training and then seemingly get nothing at all out of it, and not bothering to pass on what you learned to better the youth you work with? Is it just so you can have the beads dangling from your neck and sing your happy gilwell song?"

 

You forgot to mention all of those Baden-Powell pins, portraits, patches, and neckerchief slides that cult members like to pretend represent Baden-Powell's blessing to use Wood Badge to destroy his "Patrol System" and William Hillcourt's "Patrol Method."

 

Joni, is this about your Troop's SM who doesn't believe the boys are capable of running the program?

 

Understand one thing:

 

Wood Badge is the "Uniform Police" of Leadership Development.

 

Like a "Uniform Inspection Sheet," Wood Badge is all about blind obedience to bad policy based on indoor values.

 

The Wood Badge mind is not trained to think objectively about what is good for Scouting. It can only defend what is good for "Leadership Development."

 

I'd say that maybe 1 in every 100,000 people who are Wood Badge trained follow even the most basic tenets of the Patrol System, such as Baden-Powell's observation that for Patrols to function properly they should ALWAYS camp more than 100 yards apart.

 

The reason is that from the very moment in 1972 when "Leadership Development" was introduced as one of the so-called "Methods of Scouting," its mission was to destroy the link between leadership and outdoor skills:

 

In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill (Scoutmaster's Handbook, Sixth Edition, page 155).

 

Their most recent triumph was to move outdoor skills out of Wood Badge and dumb it down to a Cub Scout level so that indoor decision-makers can move Scouting even further away from outdoor skills and the Patrol Method. Where do you think that every Patrol-busting practice in Scouting, from forcing Scouts to sleep in identical Troop Tents to building million-dollar dining halls comes from? It comes from the theory that Scouting leadership can be learned and practiced independently of Scoutcraft skills and the Patrol Method.

 

To that end the first thing that "Leadership Development" advocates did was to destroy the BSA "Patrol Leader Training" course that taught (by actual practice) Patrol Leaders how to 1) Hold Patrol Meetings without adult supervision, 2) Conduct Patrol Hikes without adult supervision, 3) Camp without adult supervision.

 

Holders of the Wood Badge use the term "Patrol Method" in the same way that the timber industry might use "Defenders of the Ancient Forests" or "League of Old-Growth Preservationists" as names for lobby groups that advocate clear-cutting thousand-year-old trees.

 

Wood Badge is based on a similar "harvesting" of the Patrol Method.

 

When they use the term "Patrol Method" they really mean a "Troop Method" where Patrol Leaders are selected by popularity contests rather than actual leadership ability, and are taught business theory rather than traditional Scouting.

 

Withholding traditional Patrol Leader Training from Patrol Leaders allows Wood Badgers to keep the Patrol Method barefoot and pregnant

 

Without natural ability or practical training, Patrol Leaders tend to camp close together where "helpful" adults can more efficiently fine-tune abstract "skills" like "Understanding the Characteristics and Needs of the Group and Its Members," or whatever trendy "One Minute Manger" theory they happen to be taught between renditions of their "Happy Gilwell" songs.

 

It is often said that Character is what you do when nobody is watching. Likewise, Wood Badge is what Leadership Development advocates say when they are not defending Wood Badge. If the purpose of Wood Badge was to strengthen the Patrol Method rather than destroy it, the course would include practical training on how to counteract the theories that Wood Badge types usually believe:

 

Twenty Stupid Ideas

 

1) The "Eight Methods of Scouting" are universal to Scouting.

 

2) The Eight Methods are all of equal value.

 

4) The purpose of Patrols is to learn "Leadership."

 

5) The Patrol Method should serve the Leadership Development Method, rather than Leadership Development serving only the very best Natural Leaders (as in the original "Methods of Scouting").

 

6) The Scoutmaster's primary job is to teach "Leadership."

 

7) Term limits, regular elections, and Positions of Responsibility requirements are good for Scouting because they provide Scoutmasters with a constant stream of "Leadership" students.

 

8) Allowing Patrols to elect bad leaders teaches Scouts a valuable lesson about "popularity contests" by forcing them to suffer under a bad leader.

 

9) The very best natural Patrol Leaders should be encouraged to step aside to let less-talented Scouts "have their turn at this leadership POR"

 

10) Summer camp is a vacation from the Patrol Method.

 

11) The Patrol Method can be practiced in Dining Halls.

 

12) Meals prepared by professional food service contractors taste better than when a Troop practices the Patrol Method, which is reason enough.

 

13) Baden-Powell said that "Scouting is a Game With a Purpose."

 

14) Any indoor boy can earn Eagle Scout without ever walking into the woods with a pack on his back because the "Purpose" of Scouting is to "make ethical choices" not to learn outdoor skills.

 

15) A "Method" is less important than an "Aim," "Mission," or "Vision Statement."

 

16) Baden-Powell's rejection of classroom instruction is old-fashioned because Citizenship can be better learned through classroom Citizenship Merit Badge instruction than by a challenging outdoor program practiced in Patrols run by the very best Patrol Leader.

 

17) Scouting teaches Citizenship though elections.

 

18) Baden-Powell's "Patrol System" is old-fashioned because Scouts need the "Adult Association" gained from taking away from Patrol Leaders control over their Troop's bank account, advancement, and judgment of "Scout Spirit."

 

19) William Hillcourt's "Patrol Method" is old-fashioned because Scouts need business leadership theory rather than practical training in how to run their Patrols without adults.

 

20) Human nature has changed in the hundred years since Scouting was invented.

 

Kudu

 

[Bayou Beaver]

Kudu

 

Have you ever taken the course?

[Kudu]

Bayou Beaver writes:

 

"Have you ever taken the course?"

 

How else would I know that it is a trick question?

 

Kudu

 

[FireKat]

Y'all forgot my favorite - 'I have been to Wood Badge so I don't need to take any more training'. 

I have nothing against WB but I do not like it when they look down on anyone who has not been to it.  As with comparing college educated against someone who learn things thru the school of hard knock, many times I will go wil the undegreed person.  Just cause you went to a school does not mean you actually learn anything.

It can also be hard to enjoy scouting when there is no level (including Nat'l) in your area that is not falling apart.  We shall keep trying to make scouting again about the kids - not adults.

Strange thought..... how many admin type really interact with the boys on a regular basis?  Only at jamborees, PR events?  Do they only live in the corporate towers?

[Bob White]

Twenty accurate and honest answers to Kudu's 20 Stupid Question.

 

If Kudu did go to Wood Badge he chose not to pay attention and here is why.

 

1) The "Eight Methods of Scouting" are not discussed mainly because Wood Badge is not about any single scouting program,. The Scouting methods are not the same in all programs, and not every scouter who attends Wood badge is involed in every program.

 

2) The Methods are not discussed in Wood Badge...See above.

 

4) Wood Badge is not about Boy Scouting and so the purpose of patrols that is mention is that of organizing the training group into smaller units for organizational and program management purposes.

 

5) The Patrol Method should serve the Leadership Development Method, Is not discussed in Wood Badge primarily because it is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

6) Wood Badge is not about being a Scoutmaster and so the Scoutmasters primary job is not discussed.

 

7) Term limits, are not discussed in Wood Badge

 

8) Allowing Patrols to elect bad leaders is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

9) The very best natural Patrol Leaders should be encouraged to step aside is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

10) Summer camp is a vacation from the Patrol Method is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

12) Meals prepared by professional food service contractors is done for the first weekend of the program because Wood Badge is not for Troop Leaders it is for ANY leader in the BSA and not every leader needs to know how to cook outdoors for their role in scouting.

 

13) Baden-Powell said that "Scouting is a Game With a Purpose." is perhaps metioned once. and while Kudu does not agree that BP said it, it does not diminish the message or B-P's intent that Scouting should be both fun and educational.

 

14) Is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

15) A "Method" is less important than an "Aim," "Mission," or "Vision Statement."

 

16) it is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

17) Scouting teaches Citizenship through elections is not a part of Wood Badge.

 

18) Baden-Powell's "Patrol System" is old-fashioned is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

19) William Hillcourt's "Patrol Method" is old-fashioned is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

20) Human nature has changed in the hundred years since Scouting was invented is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Kudu]

Bob White and I are in complete agreement: Wood Badge has nothing to do with the Boy Scout program!

 

Allowing them to wear their pink Neckerchiefs with the Boy Scout Uniform is very misleading and should be strictly forbidden.

 

Kicking the pink out of Scouting would decrease the false impression that holders of the Wood Badge have the best interests of the Patrol Method at heart. As Bob White indicates they see the purpose of Patrols only as a way of organizing manager theory training groups into smaller units for organizational and program management purposes.

 

This conflict of interest has been a total disaster for the Boy Scout program.

 

Kudu

[Eamonn]

I didn't intend it to be any kind of a trick question.

I just wanted to know if someone who hadn't taken the course knew what training people who had taken the course had received?

If he was aware of the training he of course could judge if they were using it or not.

For the record I wear my "Pink Neckerchiefs " ??? With pride.

I wear the one I received after completing the Scout Course at Gilwell Park back in the 1970's.

This course was all about Patrols. It might be worth mentioning that at that time in that place it was the only real outdoor training course available. There really wasn't any other Outdoor Training available.

I wear the one I received after completing the Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge Course.

A entire week went by and the word Patrol was never used!! All the meals were provided by the camp. Participants were not even allowed to light a fire in their Den Camp sites. Later I went on to staff one of these Wood Badge courses.

Are we now saying that because it wasn't a Boy Scout course that it didn't really count??

I wear the one I received after attending the BSA Boy Scout course, based on the 11 Leadership Skills. Later I staffed several of these courses.

I'll admit to having never attended the 21st Century course as a participant. I have staffed a few and was honored to be the course director for one.

All the participants in order to attend had taken the specific training's needed for the position they held before attending. Yes Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters were required to have taken the Outdoor Training's and the specific training's, where the methods of Scouting are covered and the Patrol method is looked at. The Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster outdoor training is spent as a Patrol.

So what did we miss?

At the old Boy Scout Wood Badge course as a staff member I remember spending a lot of time sitting around waiting for the Patrols to cook meals and invite me to eat with them, when we were done eating it seemed that we had to wait for every patrol to get done clearing up, before we could restart.

If cooking meals and washing dirty dishes are the main thing in Scouting? We did one heck of a job!!

The 21st Century Course is a lot harder to staff mainly because the participants are doing a lot more and learning a lot more about leadership.

I happen to think this is a good thing.

But never the less I will continue to wear my "Pink" necker with lots of pride.

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[evmori]

1) The "Eight Methods of Scouting" are not discussed mainly because Wood Badge is not about any single scouting program,. The Scouting methods are not the same in all programs, and not every scouter who attends Wood badge is involed in every program.

 

In the BSA they all are the same.

 

 

4) Wood Badge is not about Boy Scouting and so the purpose of patrols that is mention is that of organizing the training group into smaller units for organizational and program management purposes.

 

Then why do you have to be a BSA member or BSA professional to take the course?

 

5) The Patrol Method should serve the Leadership Development Method, Is not discussed in Wood Badge primarily because it is not a part of Wood Badge or any BSA training syllabus.

 

Then how is a newby to learn about this method? On the street???

 

12) Meals prepared by professional food service contractors is done for the first weekend of the program because Wood Badge is not for Troop Leaders it is for ANY leader in the BSA and not every leader needs to know how to cook outdoors for their role in scouting.

 

I took the old course & if I remember correctly, we cooked all our own meals. Not every leader needs to learn how to cook outdoors, but it doesn't hurt. It helps build comradeship.

 

15) A "Method" is less important than an "Aim," "Mission," or "Vision Statement."

 

Is this why the Methods aren't taught in any training course?

 

Interesting stuff.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[Eamonn]

"Is this why the Methods aren't taught in any training course?"

Ed you might want to look at the syllabus for Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training -It's in there!!

Ea.

 

[Bob White]

1) The "Eight Methods of Scouting" are not discussed mainly because Wood Badge is not about any single scouting program,....

A poster writes In the BSA they all are the same.

 

That is incorrect. In the BSA you have three programs; Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and Venturing. Each program has its own unique set of Methods.

 

This is taught in

 

 

4) Wood Badge is not about Boy Scouting...

A Poster writes Then why do you have to be a BSA member or BSA professional to take the course?

 

Because it is about ALL adult positions in Scouting NOT just in Boy Scouting.

 

5) The Patrol Method should serve the Leadership Development Method, Is not discussed in Wood Badge.....

 

First you need to look at the entire statement. I did not say that the Patrol method was not taught. I said that the patrol method should serve the leadership method" was not taught in any BSA training.

 

A poster asks "Then how is a newby to learn about this method? On the street???"

 

While learning scouting from a local memntor is one method you will find the Patrol Method explained in New Leader Essentials the first step in BASIC adult leader training, in Scout master/Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, In the Scoutmaster Handbook, and in other Boy Scout program resources

 

 

12) Meals prepared by professional food service contractors is done for the first weekend...

 

A poster writes " took the old course & if I remember correctly, we cooked all our own meals. Not every leader needs to learn how to cook outdoors, but it doesn't hurt. It helps build comradeship."

 

True , but that was a course designed for Scoutmasters and the current Wood Badge is designed ofr ALL adult position in Scouting not just troop leaders, and while the leadership skills are universal in these positions the need to be able to cook outdors is not. The course you took and the course offered today are different, not better or worse, just different.

 

15) A "Method" is less important than an "Aim," "Mission," or "Vision Statement."

 

First it was pointed upit that this was an untrue statement and does not appear in ANY BSA training.

 

Then the question was asked of this incorrect statement "Is this why the Methods aren't taught in any training course?

 

This is also an incorrect statement as the Methods are first taught in New Leader Essentials the first step in BASIC adult leader training for all postions in Scouting. They are then retaught as part of each level of Leader Specific Training or each program leadership position in the BSA.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Eamonn,

 

I know that. I was merely quoting your pal from the Midwest. But thanks for pointing that out to others who might not have known.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, I know of a couple of methods used in Boy Scouts that is missing in Venturing, its not accurate to say the methods are the same in all of the BSA

 

Uniform- Optional

Outdoors- While there are Outdoor Crews, Arts and Hobbies, Sports,

Sea Scouts and Religious Life

Advancement- There is no advancement program in Venturing although

there are awards & Recognitions

Patrol Method- Not used