How about Sea Badge training...........

[GNX Guy]

You hit the nail on the head EMB021.

 

As a Venturing leader, I learned a lot about the Sea Scout Program and will positivly promote Sea Scouting any way I can.

 

It is another great opportunity for the youth within the BSA programs.

[Bob White]

Keep in mind that Sea Scout Officers Specialized Training is a 3 hour course to cover the basics of Sea Scouting

 

No, it is not. I have the SSOST syllabus in front on me and it clearly states that it's purpose is to familiarize the participant with the contents of the Sea Scout Manual.

 

The best aspect of the current Seabadge is the networking with the other Sea Scout leaders. The current syllabus uses almost entirely outdated materials from Wood Badge circa 1980-1985. It does not cordinate with any of the current training materials of any current BSA program. Some of the staff who wanted to infuse the current BSA terminologies and skill contents were barred from doing so by the presence of Chales Holmes the National Director of Venturing who was present to make sure that the course content was not altered.

 

Instruction on the administration on the ship that emb021 says the course is about, and which is stated in the course description, never took place. While the efforts of the staff were obvious, and the comradery of the participants was excellent, one could not say that this was advanced Sea Scout Training.

 

At best it introduced many of the participants who were Venturing leaders and not Sea Scout Ship officers to a small peak at the Sea Scout Program, mostly through some very intersting table top displays and through the networking at their crew tables and during meals. So I am sure that as a Venturing leader that GNX learned about the Sea Scout program. Speaking as a Sea SCout leader it offered nothing in the way of advanced Sea Scout Ship operations or administration training as advertised.

 

As GNX Guy pointed out these courses are usually in the mid twenties and of the 45 participants that is probably how many were actually in Sea Scout units. As you know I am a big proponent of training and have had very productive an positive learning experiences at most every training opportunity I have attended or staffed over the years. Except for the people I met this was not one of them.

 

I could not in good conscience recommend others to attend until the syllabus is corrected. I would happily pay the same amount of money to spend a weekend socializing with the scouters who were there (staff and participants) without the interruption of several hours of very poor program content.

 

Having attended and taught the other Sea Scout training courses leading up to Seabadge I can honestly say they were quite good. Seabadge appears to be the exception, unfortunately it is also considered advanced training. I would recommend that Sea Scouters attend Wood Badge at this point. They will be unable to wear the recognition but they will recieve better training until the Seabadge syllabus is updated and improved.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[emb021]

" "Keep in mind that Sea Scout Officers Specialized Training is a 3 hour course to cover the basics of Sea Scouting

 

"No, it is not. I have the SSOST syllabus in front on me and it clearly states that it's purpose is to familiarize the participant with the contents of the Sea Scout Manual."

 

Covering the contents of the SSM kind of covers the basics of Sea Scouting...

 

The syllabus I've seen has the following for the course:

 

* Ship organization and leadership (who does what, basically)

* Quarterdeck meetings (what would be called PLCs in a troop)

* Ship Meetings and activities

* Advancement

* Uniforms

 

I'd call that the basics. And since you only have 3-5 hours to cover all this, can't really get into depth. (around here they zip thru it all in about 3 hours).

 

"Having attended and taught the other Sea Scout training courses leading up to Seabadge"

 

What other 'Sea Scout training courses'? There is only SSOST. There are no other courses, at least for adults.

 

No idea in your area, but in my region we really got into stuff we couldn't get into in SSOST, like the issue of boat ownership and the like.

 

[GNX Guy]

Bob White,

 

Based on your knowledge of this particular class, were you present at this conference?

 

45 were in attendance, I believe I was told 48 had originally registered and the attendance increase was authorized by Charles Holmes.

[Bob White]

I was, and having first taken Wood Badge in 1980 and staffed Wood Badge numerous times since then I can tell you with absolute certainty that the materials in the Seabadge syllabus were taken from Wood Badge cira mid 1970's and removed from Wood Badge by 1986.

 

The Seabadge information was at least 25 years old or older. It is not in harmony with the leadership or teaching methods used today in Kodiak, NYLT, Wood Badge, or any other BSA training. This is OLD and outdated, and the staff knew it, but they had no choice because Charles was there to make sure they stuck to the syllabus. I congratulate the staff for their patience in doing the best they could with the syllabus they were given to work with.

 

As far as networking it was great, as far as training content, it was way below par and largely unrelated to Ship operations. I talked with a number of participants with backgrounds in corporate and scout leader training who were in awe of how outdated the materials were.

 

The course served more to introduce Venturing leaders to Sea Scouting then to provide advanced training or information to Sea Scout leaders.

 

A Sea Scout officer would be better served at Wood Badge until the syllabus is upgraded, which will be my recommendation to the Ship's leaders and committee at our next meeting.

 

emb021

There is New Leader Essentials, Venturing Leader Basic, and a Sea Scout modified version of Venturing Leader Basic, followed by SSOST, prior to Seabadge. Then there is the SALT course at Philmont.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[GNX Guy]

Then why as a participant, or where you on staff?, speak up and make it known how outdated things were and inquire as to why we were being taught out dated material?

[GNX Guy]

Bob White,

 

What did you think about the discussion of uniform / no uniform for Sea Scouts?

[emb021]

"There is New Leader Essentials"

 

I don't consider that as a Sea Scout course, as it's for all leaders. You comment made me think of training courses specially for Sea Scout leaders.

 

"Venturing Leader Basic"

 

Again, not specifically Sea Scout leader.

 

"Sea Scout modified version of Venturing Leader Basic"

 

I view that course as a combo of VLST and SSOST. But am not sure how official that is. IMO, if someone took it, it should count the same as having taken both VLST and SSOST.

 

"Then there is the SALT course at Philmont"

 

I forgot about SALT. However, they didn't have it last year nor this year, so AFAIK, its dead. Which I think unfortunate.

 

[Bob White]

Because if you were a participant on a train wreck and you stand up and say "we are crashing!" you will not alter the course of the train, nor will it tell the conductor or engineer anything they do not already know. Even most the passengers who were able to stay awake knew this was a train wreck. We were just fortunate to have a room full of nice passengers to share it wth.

 

Disrupting the event is not friendly, helpful, or courteous. I made my observations on the evaluation form (also an old style tool where the results are not measurable or subjective.)

 

Otherwise I made the best of the situation by making new friends and sharing ideas with others during the social times we had. I participated with my crew to help us succeed in the few excercises we had, and I looked for the few tidbits of new info that might be gleaned. Unfortunately they only good nuggets came from the social exchanges not from the course content.

 

It was not even being a matter of hearing the same good information over again, this was oudated and antiquated info that was left behind by Scouting an corporate America decades ago.

 

How outdated was the info that was distributed on boat insurance?

I will remind you..It expired 5 years ago. That was without a doubt the NEWEST information offered in the course and it was absolete in 2003.

 

I would bet you have been to pack meetings that did a better ceremony than the opening Landship.

 

This was not a good course. Good people, but not a good course.

 

If you would like I will share another example regarding the crew excercise on the the Long Cruise planning. Can you tell me what the purpose of the excercise was?

 

[dancinfox]

I just came back yesterday form Central Regions Seabadge C-5 course held in Rodchester, In and Charles Holmes was present at the course. In the course a few of the presentations used information from 21st Century WB such as EDGE and Forming, Norming, Storming, and Preforming. They used a different name, but a rose by any other names smells as sweet. I found the course gave me alot of information about Sea Scouting and how to recruit and how to teach leadership skills to the youth. As a Council Commissioner I feel that I can talk to anyone on the subject and not seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.

David Harrison

[Bob White]

I agree that EDGE was mentioned but it was not used or explained. When asked why I was told that they wanted to but were required to stay on the syllabus and the syllabus does not include EDGE.

 

Storm, Form, Norm, and Perfom was mentioned and used, but it was not used the way the staff would have preferred because it was not in the syllabus. More on this in a bit.

 

If you had limited Sea Scout experience I would agree you got a lot of Sea Scout exposure. But it was not "Advanced Sea Scout Leader Training".

 

I can see how in a Commissoners position you left with more info on Sea Scouting. But how much came from the course content and how much came from the networking and the ship diplays you encountered?

 

If you had spent the entire weekend socializing and exchanging resources with 44 sea scouters without the course topics would you have left with more Sea Scouting info or less?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[GNX Guy]

Bob White,

 

Yup, as you may recall, someone (gee, I wonder who that was) asked why the hell we got a 5 year old insurance policy.

 

Well, I did observe that there was no opening or closing flag ceremony, ie the pledge.

 

I suspect the goal of the long cruise plan was team building. What else could it have been. Heck, we have all planned trips before.

 

You have to admit, there were several topics that hinted at things covered in WB for the 21st, right?

 

 

(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)

[Bob White]

Hinting isn't training. Using outdated terms and methods isn't good training. Using basic information isn't advanced training. Unfortunately this course includes all three.

 

The purpose of the excercise was to demonstrate how the different styles of leadership and the differing stages of team development within the different crews helped or hindered their ability to get the excercise accomplished.

 

The problem was that the instructor was not allowed to have an evaluation session after the excercise to bring this to light...because it was not in the syllabus. So a lot of folks thought it was about planning a cruise.

 

As I said the best element of the weekend was the quality of the people in the course. We could have met at a hotel for a weekend and visted with each other the entrie time sharing ideas and resources and been better for the experience but the course kept interrupting us.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eamonn]

Bob White

As I posted I have not as yet attended Sea Badge.

I'm not in the Central Region and don't know many of the adults who serve in that Region.

I'm sorry that you feel that you didn't receive everything that you might have expected from the Sea Badge course.

There have been people who have posted on the Sea Scout net. page, that the course was "Top notch"

It would seem to me that some people did enjoy the course and did get something from it.

They point out that Sea Scouting in the Central region has seen 7% growth.

A member of the Ship that you serve stated that this Sea Badge course was a a good way to start the boating season.

 

Ea. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

I have spoken with Jeff and he and I are both great supporters of the regional officers many of whom were on staff. I would no sooner speak on his behalf then he would on mine. I can tell you that I share his feelings that they did a great job. Attendance was excellent, the location was great, food was very good, the people on staff outstanding.

 

The course content is old. It is outdated. it does not coordinate with any other current leadeship program in the BSA and it is wholey controlled by the National Sea Scout executive committee and they have no current plans to alter it.

 

If you wanted my honest opinion I would not recommend you attend unless it is for some excellent fellowship. But do not expect advanced Sea Scout Leader training. It is not in the program.

 

I too congratulate the committee for an excellent attempt to make some very outdated materials palatable.

 

It was fun, but it was not advanced leadership training.(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)