If WoodBadge is for Boy Scouts, what about the rest of us?

[evmori]

Ed,

 

Why don't you want to have a working knowledge of the Cub program and the Venturing program? Cubbing is the seed corn; from what I've seen, most of our kids come up that path. Being able to transition them from parent guided and adult-led to self-directing seems to be a vital soft skill for a Scouter.

 

Understanding Cubbing also allows the Boy Scout program Scouter to give better reachback to area Packs, which in turn helps recruitment.

 

I was a Cubmaster for three years so I have a pretty good understanding of how Cubs works. I have never been involved in Venturing, but if I am, I will take the training necessary for that. Until then, there is no need.

 

Understanding Cubbing doesn't help a Boy Scout leader learn diddly about Boy Scouting. Making oneself & ones unit available to the local Cub packs is what helps recruitment.

 

Since it seems the BSA has gotten into job specific training, combining Cubs, Boy Scout & Venturing into one Wood Badge program seems to be going in the opposite direction. It also seems to be more about numbers than anything else.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[AvidSM]

Perhaps WB21C came about because the powers that be recogized that other adult leaders were being left out, and instead of spawning WB specific courses for them, decided to re-tool WB into one generic leadership/relationships course.

 

Say they decided to spawn more WB specific courses instead of going to the one generic one. Would an adult with the volunteer career path of cubs to boys scouts to venturing have to take the course three times if they wanted to keep their beads? Would it be fair to place the burden of cost, time and effort on such a volunteer and the council that has to staff these courses?

 

And, why is it so important that WB be an outdoors skills course? B-P made it very clear in his Aids to Scoutmastership that,

 

"...the Scoutmaster has to be neither schoolmaster nor commanding officer, nor pastor, nor instructor. All that is needed is the capacity to enjoy the out of-doors, to enter into the boys ambitions, and to find other men who will give them instruction in the desired directions, whether it be signaling or drawing, nature study or pioneering."

 

Capacity to ENJOY the out of-doors, not be the master of it.

 

B-P thought this way, but still made WB the way it is - an outdoor skills/leadership course. I may be that he didn't know how to do it any other way. With all due respects, he did not have an educational degree.

 

It could be that after 90 years the BSA recognized an opportunity to change WB to better match B-P intentions and to have it make more sense to the voluneers who take it and the Councils who must staff it.

[Eamonn]

Sea Scouters do have Sea Badge.

As yet I have to take it, was going to this fall but life got in the way.

Having not taken it, I can't say much about it. Other than the last few courses offered were on Land!!

There has been an ongoing discussion about Sea Scouter Training in their forums.

A lot of Sea Scouters tend to think that WB is not for them! Maybe because they are not supposed to wear beads.

 

In many ways I wish that the 21st Century Course had not kept the Wood Badge name. I'd be happy if it wasn't about or didn't try to include the different sections.

But I didn't have any say in the development of the course, other than the feedback I provided after I was CD.

 

Near the start of the course NE-IV-153 I did take the time to explain to the participants:

 

I went over the Scouting Leadership Training. Explaining that the quality of the Scouting experience for Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts and Venturers depends on the quality of those leading the units and those working in Districts and Councils across the nation. The BSA offers a progression of training opportunities that can help give them the skills they need to provide leadership for Scouting and for America.

We have:

Orientation and Fast Start.

This provides a non-structured introduction to the Scouting organization.

New Leader Essentials.

This training covers the nuts and bolts of specific positions in Scouting. Adult Leaders can learn how best to fulfill their particular leadership roles in Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, Varsity Scouting, Venturing or as District or Council Scouter's involved with multiple Scouting program areas.

Appropriate Outdoor Skill Training.

This provides opportunities targeted to enhance outdoor skills need by leaders in Scoutings various programs.

Wood Badge.

This is a six day immersion in the theory,practice and experience for leading others within Scouting and in many different environments beyond the BSA.

Lifelong Learning.

The BSA encourages leaders that in addition to the its progression of trainings that they take advantage of opportunities for continuous learning and supplemental trainings within the BSA -Roundtables,pow wows, COPE courses, Scouting publications, special courses tailored to program areas -and the great variety of possibilities beyond the BSA to increase skills.

 

The front end of the progression of BSA Training is skills-oriented. In the middle, the emphasis is on leadership. After that the focus is on advanced skills that require leadership.

Wood Badge by design is to be as valuable to leaders involved with Cub Scouting, Varsity Scouting and Venturing as it is to those primarily involved with the Boy Scout program.

 

The Troop setting provides a good framework to practice the leadership skills introduced during the course.

The course content and leadership principles are however applicable to Scouters working throughout the movement and provide a common foundation of leadership skills to be used in all program areas.

(This is what I used as part of the Course Overview.)

Eamonn

[OldGreyEagle]

I thought that WoodBadge was supposed to be the Mountaintop Training experience that was patrol based so that all who took it. From the scoutmaster and assistant scoutmaster to the District Chair who never was a scout would understand the program. I thought it was supposed to introduce a common vocabulary in the BSA programs, that when a person talked about Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing, all would understand. That is what I understood WB to be. If I am wrong, I am wrong and I apologize. If WB is supposed to be "outdoor" leaders only then thats what it should be. The skills taught in WB21C don't need to be called WoodBadge. They would be just as solid called something else.

 

 

[Eamonn]

"The front end of the progression of BSA Training is skills-oriented. In the middle, the emphasis is on leadership. After that the focus is on advanced skills that require leadership."

This is the big change from what we had to what we now have.

 

The course is not in any way trying to teach advanced skills. It is a Leadership course.

We can discuss what came first the chicken or the egg?

Advanced skills or Leadership?

But the advanced skills needed to be a District Chairman are so very different than those needed to be a Roundtable Commissioner, which are so very different than the skills needed to be a Den Leader. So it makes a lot of sense to have a course that deals with leadership skills which covers everyone.

No one is saying and in fact a lot of times during the course it is stated that Wood Badge is not the end.

If someone feels that there is an area that needs attention they can go find a course or talk to their Training Chair about presenting one.

Most R/T Commissioners I know are only too happy to allow someone who is good at something pass on their great knowledge to others.

Some summer camps are now offering skill training for adults who might need a hand or be a little rusty.

One day when I get more time I'd like to work on becoming a LNT Master.

Training and learning never ends.

But if you don't know how to lead others? What good is it?

Ea

(While I think of it I don't think the BSA needs permission or really cares what happens in other countries. The BSA in many ways is unlike most other countries in the way it does things.)

[emb021]

"Perhaps WB21C came about because the powers that be recogized that other adult leaders were being left out, and instead of spawning WB specific courses for them, decided to re-tool WB into one generic leadership/relationships course. "

 

It quite obvious (to me anyway) that that is exactly why it was rolled out.

 

Prior to WB21C, you had Boy Scout Leader WB, Cub Scout Trainer WB, and Varsity Scout WB. Everyone else was left out. Sea Scout leaders created Sea Badge (and while its a great course, its not QUITE 'WB for Sea Scout leaders'). Out West, Explorer leaders created "Explorer Leader Institute" (but obviously, if you weren't out west, you were SOL).

 

While it might have been a good idea to consider program-specific WB courses (all based on a set of standard training materials, but tailed for each program), it would have been problematic. As noted before, does a person who moved from program to program have to retake WB? What happens to a person in a council were, say, the council is weak on Venturing and may not have the ability to do a 'Venturing WB'. They would either be SOL or may have to travel to another council (or even another state) to take it.

 

The patrol method is still a big part of WB. WB was always meant to be an advanced leadership course, not so much an advanced outdoor course. If there is a need for an advanced outdoor course (and personally I think it is needed), develop one (or add it to Powder Horn or the like).

 

 

 

[AvidSM]

OGE - you are saying that only the boy scout leaders outdoor-specific course should be called Wood Badge? That the beads, woggle and necker be only given to participants that complete that course?

 

What about the participants of the renamed WBfor2K? What do they earn? Rainbow colored beads?

[LongHaul]

AvidSM practically makes my point! The beads and woggle and neckerchief are important. The recognition of the name WoodBadge are important. It seems that the only thing that is not important it the fact that ALL the importance that is associated with the beads and woggle and neckerchief came from the OLD course. Powderhorn didn't need to rely on the WoodBadge name, woggle,beads, or neckerchief when it began in 1999. National knew it would get Venturing leaders to take the training even if they had take WB. Sea Badge training, started in 1970 by the way long before the corporate fad frenzy, didn't need to capitalize on the fame of an unrelated course. It was never promoted as a replacement or substitute for WB.

If I bought General Mills and started putting Cheerios in Raisin Bran Boxes would that make them Raisin Bran? Promoting the product as Raisin Bran and delivering Cheerios makes things like "bait and switch" "deceptive marketing" "false advertising" come to mind. What does not come to mind is Loyalty.

As for what the WB21C grads should wear, design something just like WB did in the beginning, just like Sea Badge did in the beginning, just like Powderhorn did in the beginning, why try to be associated with a course that is obsolete?

"Why does it need to be called WoodBadge?"

LH(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[AvidSM]

Why give the Wood Badge to participants who complete the Wood Badge for the 21st Century course?

 

Only one word comes to mind - inclusiveness.

 

I know it's a dirty word to some. But it opens the opportunity for all to work a ticket and earn their beads. Why exclude Cub Scout leaders who had their own WB course in the past and were able to earn their beads? If, you include them, then why not others?

 

The new course is a break from old gaurd and I know it's hard for them to accept it. Scouting has changed and the new Wood Badge course is an indicator of that. You might not agree with the changes, but you can't say I didn't work my ticket and earned my beads.

[LongHaul]

So in the spirit of inclusiveness why not include everyone. You get your beads as soon as you become a trained leader. All trained leaders would be recognized the same, no more knots, no more DAM or SB. How would that sit with you AvidSM?

LH

[OldGreyEagle]

AvidSM I am through trying to explain myself to those who want WB to be the WB they took before WB21rstC. I didnt go through what they did, I will never be part of the Brotherhood, I am not fit to cleam out the huge latrine they built. I dont care. In every organization there are those who look into the future and prepare themselves for the inevitable changes. There are those who keep both eyes on the rearview mirror, mourning the passge of time and rueing change. I guess an organization needs both kinds.

 

I wish I could explain myself better, but I am done

 

[LongHaul]

I can't speak for the old boys in your council/district/area but I don't remember anyone in this thread or the others on the WB subject recently saying that those who took WB after 2001 are not as good, qualified,or worthy as those who took it pre-change. Most of the pre-change people that complain about WB21C just rue the loss of the old course. In the 70's I was told I would never really be a SM until I was invited to take WB. WB in my area back then was by invitation only. In the 90's I was told that if I wasn't WB then I was not doing justice to my unit. Now I'm told that even though I took WB, because it was not the new WB21C I'm not as good of a leader as I could be. Somethings never change. You say you will never be part of the Brotherhood. If you completed WB21C then you are part of the New Brotherhood but it sounds like you want to be part of the OLD Brotherhood. You sound like you think it should be one Brotherhood except that the Old Brotherhood is not welcome in the New Brotherhood as equals we have to give up our beads and start over if we want to be part of your Brotherhood. If the good old boy old course was so bad why would anyone today want to be associated with it and the name it made noteworthy?

LH

[GernBlansten]

You have to wonder if the WB21C'rs would pine for the ol' WB21C course if BSA up and swapped it out with a new and improved WB21.1 version. Probably hear the same comments the ol'timer WB'rs have about the WB21C course.

[eolesen]

When I see someone wearing beads and a tartan necker, I could really care less which version of the course they took. The fact is that they worked a ticket and earned their necker and beads, and that's the bond that ties us together.

[Lisabob]

Thank you eoleson, I agree.

 

Gern, there have actually been some modifications to WB21 so I suppose you could say there is a WB21.1 out there now. I've heard no hue and cry.

 

And LH I wish what you said were true everywhere. In my son's troop there are a few people who would almost certainly enjoy and benefit from WB training. I'm sure they'd have benefited from the "old" WB too, but they didn't go through it when it existed and now it isn't an option. Somewhere, someone put a bee in their bonnet that the "old" WB was the only real WB and the "new" WB is not worth it. SO they won't ever go now, and they've shared that view with other newer leaders too. As a consequence, no one from the troop has gone to WB in more than 10 years, and the couple of people who went 10+ years ago are no longer involved/active with the troop (I went in 2003 but as a cub leader so I'm not counting myself there). Now before others jump on me for saying this, some of these people have great scout skills and are very giving of themselves. I appreciate all they've done, including their service as SMs and CCs in the past. I'm just saying that in some cases, they have chosen to close the door on a good thing, based on other people's mis-impressions and mis-information about the new course (also, by the way, coming from people who have no personal experience with the WB21 course), rather than being open-minded about it and trying it for themselves. That, to me, is kind of a shame since I've noticed that, if nothing else, WB helps scouters re-energize themselves about scouting and every unit can use that.

 

By the way I just did roster checks for our district's units and I noticed that many of the same adults who scoff at the current WB are also not trained for their positions as SMs, ASMs, and CC. Makes me wonder if (in some cases) some of the people who are anti-WB21 are really just not willing to do training of any kind and grumbling against the current WB format is just part of a larger pattern.