If WoodBadge is for Boy Scouts, what about the rest of us?

[OldGreyEagle]

Ok, from the thread on What WoodBadge is supposed to be I have a few conclusions. Many posters want to see WoodBadge be a much more Outdoor skill course. If that was/is the intent, then it may be best to allow WoodBadge to morph off into such a program. By definition such a course would be of value to scoutmasters and assistant scoutmasters.

 

Now, what about those who are not assistant scoutmasters and scoutmasters? Cubmaster, Committee Chairs, Venturing Advisors, District Chairs, etc. These people also need training, what do we offer them?

 

In many Councils posters have commented that Boy Scout training pretty much exhibits a vacuum (IE "it sucks")So are we to beleive these Councils will be able to put together an outstanding Outdoors Skill course for Assistant Scoutmasters and Scoutmasters as well as excellent training for the other scouting positions?

 

Could it be that the BSA looked at the training requirements of the various programs and decided that it was impossible to have separate Cub, Scout, Venturing, Exploring, Varsity and Sea Scout training courses? (OK, I know technically Sea Scouts are in Venturing, but they are different, right E?)

 

Perhaps the Outdoor skills course needs an upgrade, to either be called something catchy, Daniel Beard training or something else, Administrative type positions could have something else, the Seton award for example. But what I can see happening is as more training programs are offered, requiring more training staff and more syllabi to be written I dont see a lot of cohesion.

 

Why not allow WoodBadge to be the administrative course and then upgrade the exisiting position specific programs?

 

I know its not how things started, then again, would you as a troop award ranks after first class as Life, Star and then Eagle? I mean thats what was the original way. In the first Boy Scout handbook there was a passage giving information on how a scout could stop a runaway horse drawn cart, is the present book inferior because it lacks the original information? Ok, its inferior for a lot of reasons, but not because the information to steer the horses into the side of the nearest barn in not there.

 

I am sorry WoodBadge changed and became less, but how do we train everyone who needs to be trained at a high level and share a common vocabulary?

 

 

[emb021]

The problem with the "WB should just be for Boy Scout Leaders" is it leaves the rest of us out in the cold.

 

When I took WB, there were 2 WBs: Boy Scout Leader WB (which I took) and Cub Scout Trainer WB. Everyone else (Explorer Leaders, Cub Scout leader who weren't CS Trainer, anyone district/council level who weren't involved in Boy Scouts, etc) were SOL when it came to WB.

 

When the Varsity Scout program was rolled out, there eventually developed Varsity Scout WB.

 

Sea Scout leaders would develop on their own Sea Badge. While Sea Badge is pretty good, and has some elements of WB, its not quite 'WB for Sea Scouter'.

 

Even if you where to made WB be more specific to Boy Scouting, you would still leave out Cub Scouters and Venturing leaders.

 

[purcelce]

Amen brother and fellow Crew Advisor!!!

 

Cary P

Crew 805 Advisor

WB C-39-06

[John-in-KC]

The rub is this:

 

Do we really have a well thought-through life cycle model of the Scouter? I submit we do not.

 

A good friend is on our Council's Executive Board. He's made the clear and succint comment: "Cub Scouting is the seed corn from which we grow our older program members. We must do all we can to nurture the seed corn."

 

Folks, that includes a training and development model for leaders. The fact of the matter is the adult who grew up with a suite of outdoor skills is the minority in America now. That was not the case for us Boomers in 1946. Many of our Dads came home from WWII with a whole kitbag of skills: Small arms, astronomy, camping, field cooking, communication ... The Dads of our Troops had what we needed to grow up in Scouting.

 

Well, (and with apologies)... we added the other gender to Scouting leadership. While many were better outdoorspeople than most men, more than a few had no idea.

 

As our Boomer generation grew up, and spawned GenX, we continued the urbanization and suburbanization of America. I'll tell you, one of my five mile hikes, in 1968, was across the street grid of the San Fernando Valley. I still remember dropping my first aid kit into the Wash along VanOwen Ave. That trend has only progressed with time. EagleSon did two of his training rides around a closed circuit of an area fish hatchery lake.

 

To my way of thinking, National Council needs to survey most Scouters and many parents in the Cub and Boy programs: Concurrently, it needs to field evaluate the camping and hiking skills of that same population. I will bet cold, hard cash we will find the outdoors skills aren't anywhere near what they properly should be for any given climate regime.

 

With a proper baseline, then we can develop a suite of training that provides the support a Scouter will need to first, be comfortable himself in being in an outdoors-based program, and second, will equip him to train and mentor youth leaders who in turn train the youth.

 

If we just keep ripping each other over "you don't deserve your beads" and "you're an old fart" all we do is waste energy which we need to serve the youth.

 

Maybe that means we even re-visit the concept of volunteers training volunteers, particularly in the outdoor skills.

 

National attempted a start with New Leader Essentials, in terms of training to the current position. Now, it needs to look at training the soft skills for current and next, and then it needs to evaluate our true skill in the Outdoors.

 

Finally, we have to recognize that Wood Badge is not the sole property of the Boy Scouts of America. It's world-wide. We need to look at that training based on what other Scout Associations perceive the beads meaning, as well as what we think they mean. The beads, the taupe necker, and Gilwell Field are trans-national. We do our youth a dis-service if we decide WB is "'Murica... love it or else."

 

My thoughts, respectfully.

 

YIS.

[Kudu]

If Cubmasters, Committee Chairs, Venturing Advisors, District Chairs, etc. need a business management formula so badly, then have them earn a "Ph.D." in the University of Scouting.

 

Why call it Wood Badge?

 

And who exactly is suggesting that Wood Badge should be all about Outdoor Skills?

 

Outdoor Skills in Wood Badge are a means to an end just as Outdoor Skills in Boy Scouts are a means to an end.

 

Baden-Powell's one Aim of Scouting is Citizenship. The whole point of camping is to make Scout Law a practical necessity for getting along with each other in a small group called a Patrol (Citizenship! Get it?).

 

The one aim of Wood Badge is to make the Patrol Method a living thing. We teach Scouters a few Outdoor Skills in Wood Badge for exactly the same reason as Scouters teach Outdoor Skills to Boy Scouts: to get outside and learn the Patrol game.

 

Scouting is a game.

 

How many of us really believe that?

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

NOT AN ACCEPTABLE ANSWER, KUDU

 

UOS is not, so far as I'm told, a "due course" BSA (or WOSM) training. It's supplemental in nature.

 

You've stuck the problem, obliquely: We don't have a good life cycle development of Scouters. Maybe other countries do, the US sure as heck doesn't.

 

Yes, I believe Scouting is a game ... for the children

 

From everything I've read of Baden-Powell, for adults, it's a serious task, to be given the full gravitas due it. That means we can smile and laugh, yes. It also means looking deeply eye to eye with a youngster and challenging him to see his own heart of hearts... and to get the Oath and Law lodged there for a lifetime.

 

There is no more important task for adults than raising up the next generation to be good, God-fearing people.

[emb021]

"If Cubmasters, Committee Chairs, Venturing Advisors, District Chairs, etc. need a business management formula so badly, then have them earn a "Ph.D." in the University of Scouting."

 

Not a suitable answer.

 

University of Scouting is not a Nationally mandated training program. It varies greatly from council to council. My home council has a well organized UoS where you can earn Bachelor, Masters, Post Grad, and Doctoral degrees (which I did), but other councils in my area do NOT run their UoS like that. For most its just a weekend of supplemental training.

 

While the training I got at UoS, it pales in comparison to Wood Badge. And again, why deny Cubmasters, Committee Chairs, Venturing Advisors, District Chairs, etc Wood Badge? B-P did NOT create Wood Badge as 'just for Scoutmasters'. He had WB for Cub Scout leaders, Boy Scout Leaders, Senior Scout/Rover leaders, etc.

 

 

[evmori]

What about the rest of us?

 

What's wrong with having a similar course for Cubs & Venturing? There are enough variances in each program to have their own course. I know if I am a Boy Scout leader, I don't want to learn about Cub stuff. Venturing maybe, but that isn't the real reason I am taking the course.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[Kudu]

"From everything I've read of Baden-Powell, for adults, it's a serious task, to be given the full gravitas due it."

 

That is the problem, isn't it? "Leadership Development" is considered "serious" and the Patrol Method merely a convenient laboratory in which to practice its abstractions.

 

"Leadership Development" is the exact opposite of Baden-Powell's outdoor Patrol System: Its natural predator.

 

Put the indoor schoolroom stuff for indoor leaders where indoor leaders belong: In the schoolroom.

 

The "University" of Scouting is the perfect home for Leadership Development.

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[Scouter&mom]

Putting the leadership development into University of Scouting, or saying have the Cub leader earn a degree at UoS assumes that your Council can manage to put on one that is worth going to. Our council is really struggling with training. We got a bumper crop of new leaders in the fall (new SE emphasized recruitment) and training has only been offered one date. As pack trainer, I am working to train leaders in our pack (yes, I went to trainer development), but it took me over 3 weeks to get a syllabus for New Leader Essentials and I work less than 5 minutes from council office! The UoS that our council offered was within weeks of the time new leaders signed up at school nights and only offered NLE and Position specific classes. Nothing else to encourage anyone else to attend.

 

I am attending another council's UoS next month. Driving 4 hours and staying overnight two nights at my own expense because I want to attend a well done UoS and learn something to bring home. When I decide to attend Wood Badge, it too will be in another council. Don't have a lot of faith in my own council's training. Yes, I do support our training. I taught three classes at POW WOW.. the only problem was information was only allowed to go out of council office 10 days prior to event, so attendence was very poor.

 

Let's remember many of us live in those council's that are no where near "perfectville" and have to do the best we can to provide the program to the kids.

[skeptic]

Much of the contention here appears to come from our broad spectrum of experience. While the syllabus is the same for all, the people putting on the courses have local interpretations of the material. Having gone through the older version in the 80's, then serving as a counselor on the new course, I can see some similarities; but it was initially an adjustment for me. As we progressed through the pre-course training, I began to see how the 21st Century course was far better for the methods needed as "adults".

In my original course, it was an 8 day continuum, and focussed on the outdoors and patrol method. While it was certainly very educational for some, many of us had had extensive training already in those skills, both as scouts and scoutleader training. And, today, in our area, the essentials courses focus on introductions to the specific level, cubs etc, and what they will need. Then, they have secondary courses that expand on specific areas. We also have separate outdoor training courses, the introductory level good for all boy scout leaders, and the advanced levels for the more intensive high adventure areas. Separate offerings for backpacking, biking, winter, and water activity.

So, the WB course currently offered in our council presents these opportunities as available and recommended for the the best success; but it focusses on ways to lead and manage, while using bits and pieces of the the more intensive skills offered elsewhere.

Hopefully, this makes some sense. I know that when I have had assistants willing to put in the effort on the outdoor oriented skill offerings, we have had the best outdoor program. When I have too few, the outdoor program suffers somewhat, especially now that I am no longer as able physically to help on longer hikes and backpacks.

Woodbadge is still an advanced leadership course. It is not intended to take the place of other, more focussed offerings in specific levels. Those taking WB should ideally have had at least the first couple of levels of these other opportunities before WB. And, at least in my patrol I had as counselor, those who had the most preliminary work had the best ticket ideas and were better able to see the benefit of what they were doing. Was it because they were more management capable, or because they were more comfortable because they felt more skilled already in their actual area?

 

 

[LongHaul]

OGE began this thread with; >>OK, from the thread on What WoodBadge is supposed to be I have a few conclusions. Many posters want to see WoodBadge be a much more Outdoor skill course. If that was/is the intent, then it may be best to allow WoodBadge to morph off into such a program.<<

morph off into? How about return to? For 90 some years it was a more Outdoor skill course when compared to the present version. What about the rest of us? For 90 some years the Scouting program flourished with a course that didn't focus on "the rest of us". Kudu asked the question "Why call it WoodBadge" but it went totally ignored. For 90 some years WoodBadge courses were run across the country and they built a reputation. It was the reputation of the OLD course which the NEW course needed to even get off the ground. The NEW course needed to eliminate the OLD course before it could be launched. This NEW course is WoodBadge in name only, those so intent on defending it want the prestige and recognition of WoodBadge a prestige and recognition that has nothing to do with the NEW course. How about putting WoodBadge back the way it was for 90 some years and 'morphing off' a new course. Call it ULT Ultimate Leadership Training market it as the pinnacle of Leadership Training for Life. Develop some form of neck wear that would herald the wearer as and Ultimate Trained Leader. Why not, because National knew full well they could not compete with WoodBadge so they had to eliminate the competition but kept the prestige and reputation of the name.

 There is absolutely nothing wrong with the NEW course in fact it fills a much needed training void but it also created a void which the old course had filled. If this new course is so great why does it NEED to be called WoodBadge to survive?

LongHaul

[OldGreyEagle]

Hey, you know what? The reason I didnt take WoodBadge in the pre-WB21C was because I viewed it as an elitist bunch of good ol' boys who thought they were so far above everyone else they didnt need to talk to you or even acknowledge your existence. Their arrogrance and attitude fostered a lot of turmoil in the Council. I was told WB21C would change all that. Apparently not. Go ahead be pigs, I wont stop you

[John-in-KC]

Ed,

 

Why don't you want to have a working knowledge of the Cub program and the Venturing program? Cubbing is the seed corn; from what I've seen, most of our kids come up that path. Being able to transition them from parent guided and adult-led to self-directing seems to be a vital soft skill for a Scouter.

 

Understanding Cubbing also allows the Boy Scout program Scouter to give better reachback to area Packs, which in turn helps recruitment.

 

It's all about the program, but at our level, the inter-relationships matter.

 

My thoughts.

 

To Kudu: Since you're so hung up on Leadership Development as buzzwords, I'll give you a more fun term: RELATIONSHIP DEVELOPMENT. Do you not understand, most of life is about interpersonal relationships? Doesn't every adult serving the youth deserve high quality training in this field? How many of us get this training in college, in our day jobs, outside our day jobs? Not many. We Scouters are blessed to have it... and from what I see, you would take it away, to impale all on the stake of a single method.

 

YIS

[LongHaul]

>>Being able to transition them from parent guided and adult-led to self-directing seems to be a vital soft skill for a Scouter.<<

Yes!,and that Scouter would be the Webelos Den Leader NOT the Scoutmaster. The New Scout program how ever it is approached is NOT supposed to be a Webelos III program.

 >>Understanding Cubbing also allows the Boy Scout program Scouter to give better reachback to area Packs, which in turn helps recruitment.<<

 Which is exactly why a solid and effective Webelos Transition Program is necessary in every Council, District, Boy Scout and Cub Scout unit.

Why does this NEW course have to be at the expense of the OLD course?

"Why does it need to be called WoodBadge?"

LongHaul