Scoutmaster/Trainer/WB Graduate

[jshupe391]

Hi again,

 

Just a question. I am the Adult Boy Scout Leader Training Leader for our District and have been for a few years. I have always wanted to be on Wood Badge Staff (got my beads in '98) but was never invited. Now they have asked me to become part of the future Wood Badge Staff, BUT, because I did my Wood Badge back in 1998, I have to take the new Wood Badge course. This is supposedly a National rule.

I will probably do so, but does this not seem redundant (and expensive). I am a Good Ol' Owl, would never want to be anything else, I ran my Tickets and have been training new leaders before and since my Wood Badge experience. If I had not moved out of my old district, I would have been an old pro of Wood Badge staffing (as I had already been asked to staff there before I moved.)

Would you take the new course just so you could be on future staff's? Would I be able to stay an Owl?

Just curious

[Gunny2862]

I would first, do the research to find out if it IS a national rule. If it is then I would take it if I wanted to do WB staff. If not, then determine if there have been significant changes to the course since you took it or if the changes are such that you would pick up on them during your exposure to the course material during your train up period prior too delivering any course material. If the changes are extensive I would seriously consider doing it again.

 

As far as the Owl issue I don't have any idea. I've not been able to attend WB the first time yet.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

So if I understand this correctly they want you to be on staff for a future WB but you have to take the course over again to do it?

 

Something is amiss!

[emb021]

FYI. This is now the rule.

 

I went thru the prior Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge in 1989.

 

I finally got a chance to be on Wood Badge staff for a 21st Century WB course in 2004.

 

This past year or so, the rules for staff for the 21CWB course changed such that you had to have either participated or staffed a 21CWB to be on staff.

 

Similiar rules were also going into place for Course Director. My course's course director had never been a troop guide on a 21CWB course, but the CD for the next year's course had to attend our as a troop guide due to the changing requirements.

[SueM]

Yes, 2006 was the last year in which if you had not been on staff for a WB-21st course, that you could do it without having to put your beads aside and go through the course again. This is the National Policy. I know with the course I helped staff last year, there was an all out effort to include as many old staffers as possible in the staff roster, so that they could avoid having to go through the new course in the future.

 

Sue M.

 

[Eamonn]

Hi jshupe391

Welcome to the forums.

I don't know what you know about the changes in the course?

It really is nothing like the course you took back in the last century!!

As ever some people love this new course and some don't.

I like it as a Leadership Course.

But I liked the old courses.

I have been fortunate enough to have staffed the old Boy Scout and Cub Scout Trainer course. I also staffed two 21st Century courses before being the CD for the new course.

The first 21st Century course I staffed had a staff of mainly people who had staffed the "Old course", in fact for some unknown reason we only had four rookie staffers?

Sadly many of these old timers just didn't get it and kept trying to compare the old and the new, as of course they were more familiar and used to the old course they didn't like the new one and it kinda showed.

Having six people who had served as Scoutmaster on the old course wasn't such a great idea.

Ea.

[Lisabob]

I went through the new course - didn't have an opportunity to do the "old" one. I'm not saying one is better than the other, though I enjoyed my WB experience. But if I had an opportunity to do it again? I definitely would. Rather than "just another obstacle" think of it as an opportunity to re-do something fun and eye-opening, as a way to re-invigorate yourself, and/or as a way to get to know a whole new group of high-energy scouters in your area. I have yet to meet anyone who went to WB as a participant (and finished the course) who didn't come away with a renewed enthusiasm for scouting.

 

The course I was part of was staffed almost entirely by "old guard" who had only done the previous WB curriculum. And it showed - I fully agree w/ Eamonn on this. If nothing else, I think most people will be better guides and teachers in the "new" course if they have experienced it for themselves.

 

As for cost, maybe talk to your council's WB association or the CD for the upcoming course. I do think it would be reasonable to offer a reduced rate or partial scholarship to people who are already Woodbadgers and who are only taking the new course so they could staff in the future.

[allangr1024]

I was in the last WB course taught under the old syllabus. We did it in three weekends spaced two weekends apart from one another. I had thought about trying to join the staff of a current course just to see the changes. Our CC took the first course under the WB for the 21st Century syllabus. We tried to compare the two, but all I could hear was that the fun stuff that we did was deleted.

 

And I was told by the guy who has been running our WB for several years that I would have to take the new course since there is no way I could be a good staffer if I did not experience the 21st century course. It may have been his communication style, but I came away feeling like a second class citizen for not having taken the new course. How could I have been so dumb for asking something like that.

 

I came away from the old course having tasted the patrol method, and wanting more. That was the strength of the old course. The games we played, the chores we did together, the planning we did, all helped to cement us together as a patrol. We even came in on one of the off weekends and cleared the rockes out of the "Campsite" they put us in to make the place more livable. When I say that I will be a Bear forever, there was a lot that went into that identity. We did not get to the weather rock in time, one of the other patrols (made up of professional engineers) moved the rock with a really fancy device of their own invention, took it back into town, and left it on the WB scoutmasters lawn (where I think it still is).

 

Now, I hear that a lot of the patrol method stuff is gone, and they do not even do the weather rock any more. (sigh).

And since I took over as scoutmaster, finding time for it all is deminished.

 

What has been added is something of a mystery.

[John-in-KC]

My course, weather rock was still there. (2005). Right or wrong, I dunno. It was there!

 

As Lisa said, for many of us, WB21C is what we know. It is what it is. We had a great time, we got a great chance to work our tickets.

 

My Owl patrol corresponds by email, we''ll be going (well, they''ll be going) to breakfast reunion later this month... I have a HS obligation with EagleSon and the band. As far as patrol method, it''s still there. For our second weekend, I was grubmaster, another was quartermaster, and we shared cook and KP. We had a blast!

 

I''m sorry, allangr, you got talked to that way by someone current. Too many of us 21C folk have had the reverse experience from older course folk. We''re here to learn, to make friendships, to better prepare us to serve the youth program members. Your Gilwell necker and beads are no different than mine.

 

As far as the expense, I''ve deducted WB fees and mileage as skill development training. My CPA gave me a green light. It''s not that much, but every penny counts.

 

John

I used to be an Owl

C-40-05

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Geez, I love the public, it people I can''t stand...

 

Talk about nothing being new, allangr1024 says he feels like a second class citizen because he didnt take the new course, I took the new course and have been told I will never be a true Wood badger because I didnt take the real course that the current syllabus replaced.

 

Perhaps Miss Manners needs to be consulted to write a program on how not to totally alienate Wood Badgers who did not enjoy the same curriculum as you did. And perhaps we should each remember just because some one didnt earn their beads the same way we did dosesnt make them any less valuable

[eagle-pete]

We had an "Old WB" member of our staff. He has not gone through Wood Badge for the 21st Century. Yes, our Course Director bent (broke?) that rule. If you don''t say anything, I won''t.

 

Anyway, it was obvious he had never gone through Wood Badge for the 21st Century. Just like Eamonn says, he kept trying to compare the old course with the new to the extent of attempting to apply old WB methods to the new. It didn''t work.

 

He eventually did get converted to 21st Century after some one-on-one''s with the ASM. But it would have been easier on him to just go through the new course.

 

Yes, you will likely change critters and, yes, you have to pay for the course again. As for the beads, they''d have to pry them from my cold, dead hands before I gave them up... but it''s not so bad doing another ticket. Heck, I basically go through a simplified ticket process now for most of my goals anyway. It''d probably do me good.

 

I think there is some good reason to the policy. Most Wood Badgers from the old course have not set foot on the Hill for many years (aside from some that have already staffed several courses). If for no other reason than a review of Wood Badge, it would be helpful I would think. And it only makes sense - You can hardly expect to deliver a training course that you have never taken yourself.

 

Eagle Pete

[eagle-pete]

By the way..

 

This horse has been beat before:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=149289

 

Eagle Pete

[John-in-KC]

Pete,

 

Yep, you said it. They will have to pry my beads from my cold dead hands. NO ONE can make me give up my beads, if ever BSA migrates to a new curriculum from 21C.

 

As for a new ticket, my TG, at our completion visit, told me pretty plainly... from this point out, you''ll always be finding new ticket items to take care of.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[eagle-pete]

Amen, John

[dancinfox]

In regards to the question about indivduals who have attended Wood Badge in the past. They may attend Wood Badge for the 21st Century provided that: 1. They agree to write and work a Wood Badge for the 21st Century ticket, and 2. tehy agree not to wear Wood Badge beads until they have satisfactorily completed their Wood Badge for the 21st Century ticket. This is from the 2008 Admin. Guide.

David Harrison