Pros/Cons of Women/Girls in Boy Scouting

[Annalisa]

Greetings from Colorful Colorado!

 

I am begining my 20 page thesis for my Phd in Commissioners College. The title of my thesis is as follows... The Pros and Cons of Women and Girls in the Boy Scouts of America.

 

I am looking for EVERYBODY'S opinion on this one. Pro or Con, I need as much data as I can for this paper. Don't let the fact that my name happens to be Annalisa, fool you, I see both sides of the argument. I'm looking for your honest opinion. All names will be with held from the thesis.

 

Thanks for all of your help and input!

[OldGreyEagle]

Annalisa, I think the "Moms are not allowed" and "Coed Scouting in the USA" threads should get you started, and I have no idea how this thread will go, but this is the place for input(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[evmori]

Women as adult leaders - yes. Girls as Scouts - no. Boys between the ages of 11 & 17 are more prone to hold back around girls. This would effect them in Scouting. Besides, there is Girl Scouts.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

AnnaLisa,

With all due respect to you and to the hard work of a Commissioners PHD, how exactly will this thesis improve commissioner service to scouting? Regardles of the pros and cons you gather the BSA has made it very clear that except for the coed Venturing program the Boy Scout and Cub Scout program will remain for male youth members only.

 

Shouldn't the work you do in your thesis help to better scouting in your community. Having served as Dean in a multi-council college, one element of the PHD. that was required was it must have function, it had to lead to action that improved scouting and made a difference in service to units and scouts.

 

Once you have amassed personal opinions, how will that survey be turned into action when than action has already been decided upon?

 

I encourage you to continue your work in commissioning and I hope you will consider redirecting your doctoral efforts.

 

Bob White

[ozemu]

AnnaLisa is your thesis intended to review the decision about the boy scout part of BSA as Bob thinks or are you interested in the pro's and con's of women/girls current involvement in BSA? ie Venture scouting and women SM's.

 

 

[Bob White]

And again AnnaLisa, if that is your intent then what is the goal. The BSA is not going to remove female leaders or female involvement in venturing. The leaders who do not want womwn in scouting will not change until they choose to. So how will the survet be turned into an sction?

Bob

[ozemu]

Hang on Bob, I'm not trying to be flippant or sarcastic here as I know nothing about the college requirements but I see two possibilities.

 

One - she finds something useful about the current training / employemnt of women that points to some improvement

 

Two - evreything is found to be fine as it is.

 

Either way the study improves or validates the system which can only be useful in implementing Scouting.

 

Given some studies I 've read there are issues emerging about recruitment and training of women in the outdoors that are different to the way things have worked for men. Not big changes but more tailoring things to serve them and you better. I am aware of outdoor industry direction which is still developing. BSA may be ahead here but then again there might be useful stuff.

 

Analisa - try K? Warren as an author in a literature search and have a lok at the Journal of Experiential Education back issues. If yuo wish to pursue this I'll find better references.

 

[Bob White]

Hi ozemu, I wasn't saying you were flippant. I think you raised a good point that there was another way to look at her question than I percieved.

 

In the US women are treated by the BSA exactly the same way men are. They take the same training, can hold all the same offices, wear the same uniform. Girls in Venturing are treated as other youth members, they participate in the same program and have the same advancement opportunities as the males.

 

Unfortunately not all volunteers treat them the same but that is a problem with the individual and not the BSA.

 

Again the hurdle remains how to use the results to influence scouting for the better in her community. How to you take a survey on opinions and turn it into an action?

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[red feather]

I see a place for women in Scouting for their leadership skills and life experiences. However there is little place for young women to in Boy Scouts. Many of our young men would not behave the same or react the same to the situations that are presented to them in training and outdoor situations.

 

There is an excellent program for young women that is working well and is well represented. Leave well enough alone and I do hope that people will quit trying to fix what is not broke.

 

Remember what happened to Ma Bell when enlightened groups tried to improve the communication system.

[Annalisa]

Bob White.

 

It was a small request to leave an opinion about the pros or cons of women and girls in the boy scouting program. It was never intend to strike up an arguement. The reasons for my writting this paper are my own. If you don't want to participate in my questions that's fine. This not a requirement.

 

For everybody else, thank you for your input. I have gone back and viewed the suggested reading, but I'm looking for more specifics. I'm looking for the whys in your decission.

 

This paper will only be a success if you share your honest opinion on the subject. Thank you to those who have already given an opinion. I feel that after my paper is written, it will, in fact make a difference to those who read it in my area of the woods.

 

Yours in Scouting...

Annalisa Beaver

[Annalisa]

Please let me say; this paper is not intended to change BSA policy in allowing girls to join BSA. For this portion of my paper, I am simply needing your opinion, that's it.

 

Also, Bob White, women are NOT treated by the BSA exactly the same way men are. As a woman, I can tell you I have had many instances of discrimination because of my gender. Training opportunities are there for us all, but that is where the line is drawn. I am a Scoutmaster and a Roundtable commissioner. I have been in Scouting for nearly 9 years and have seen many women in my council quit because of the "good ol boys" attitude by those in paid positions in scouting.

[OldGreyEagle]

For the record

 

I dont see any reason why a woman cant hold the same position in a troop or higher level position if she is trained, can get the job done, etc. In other words, I dont see a problem judging people on their own merits, regardless of sex, after all, we are all just people

[acco40]

Living in Michigan with a close proximity to Canada has allowed me to come into contact with various adults and youth involved in Scouts Canada (NOT BSA). Scouts Canada is 100% co-ed through Beavers (5 -7) Cubs, (8-10), Scouts (11-14) and on up. They seem to be doing nicely but I would get the perspective of some of their youth and adults for your thesis. They "do it." We as Americans speculate about it. They do have difficulties finding female leadership for all of their activities (female adult leadership is required for female youth to attend). They can give you feedback on the real pros and cons as opposed to speculation.

 

For Bob White, I know what the current BSA policy is but where do you get your information about "the BSA has made it very clear that except for the coed Venturing program the Boy Scout and Cub Scout program will remain for male youth members only." I'm not trying to challenge you or disagree with you, but I'm not aware of any "future" policy statements (except that many of the Cub Scout handbooks, Tiger, Wolf, Bear and Webelos will get new editions in August?) that the BSA puts out. Besides, Wood Badge training tries to get the leadership to embrace change, not be rigid (that was a joke by the way).

[Bob White]

AnnaLisa,

My purpose was not to start an argument, but to seek the purpose of the thesis. The BSA does treat women as equals, it is the personal attitude of individuals members that you have a problem with. My question is how will a survey of opinions lead to an improvement of scouting. What if the vast numer of respondents are negative regarding womens involvement. Will that make them right? What if the vast numbers are pro-women involvement, will that change anyones opinion?

 

The BSA says that women, with the exception of housing and showers, are equals. They can hold all the same offices, take the same training, can attend all the same activities, wear the same uniform. Where does the program treat women differently?

 

It is unfortunate that not all volunteers are able to put aside personal predjudice when dealing with women. But the ones who do not respect women in scouting, do not respect women outside of scouting either.

 

I'm just curious how your thesis will result in change.

 

Again I'm am not dicouraging you from your PHD, and perhaps your council has a different end goal for the doctoral work. A survey that proves there are adults who do not like women involved at certain levels of scouting does not seem in itself to be news to anyone.

 

The goal of commissioner service is to insure that every eligible youth has the opportunity to belong to a quality scouting program. How will your survey effect that goal?

 

Bob White

 

[Bob White]

The BSA on a number of occasions have said that based on a decades old relationship with the Girl Scout organization the BSA will not be co-ed at the cub and scout level.

 

The last time I heard this reinforced was last August at Philmont Training Center when the questio was posed to a panel of division directors from the national office.

 

Bob White