On line training.

[Eamonn]

While I'm not as a rule a big fan of on line training's. Last night everyone was out. I was home alone with Rory and Joe. Having spent the day attending a really bad Safe Boating Course. The course was bad because the presenter presented what he thought we needed.

We were in Pittsburgh and I'm sure most of the people he has attend this course are power boaters who will do their boating on the rivers. He skipped sailing,hardly touched on navigation and to make matters worse told long stories which were OK at first but after a while I sat there thinking "Oh No!! Not another one."

With nothing worth turning on the TV for I thought I'd check up on "Ethical Abuse".

I had never ever heard of this before. So I took the on line YP Training. It makes no mention of it.

I spend a week at Philmont attending a conference on delivering commissioner service. The course was for volunteers serving as District and Council commissioners.

One Lady seemed to want to make everything into a YP issue.

For example one role play was a commissioner visiting a Troop in camp and finding the leaders sitting around the camp having a beer.

I think we all know that Beer and Scouts don't mix and I agree that they shouldn't.

This Lady wanted to turn this into a yp issue.

Maybe the time has come for all Youth Protection Training to be done on line?

That way everyone will get the same information, without the additions of what the presenter feels. Nothing will be missed.

When questions are asked the on line training can be used as a reference.

Youth Protection Training is a BSA Training it should be presented as just that. If CO have other or require other training's that's fine and dandy.

Most of the confusion about this seems to come from things that just are not in the Training.

I never ever thought I'd say this but "Long Live On Line Training's"

Eamonn.

[LongHaul]

Online training is great but offers no opportunity for questions or feed back. The online YP training uses a video made in the early 90's which was updated in 2005 to include three scenarios for discussion. It does not address local laws, it does not address legal decisions made after the video was produced, it does not address "local standards" which is the yard stick for reasonable suspicion. What might pass for abusive behavior by a parent will vary from coast to coast. Ethical abuse is not on the online training because it(the video) was made some 15 years ago, Ethical abuse, as I stated in the other thread, is the newest of the bunch. Youll hear it again give it time. The whole point is why are we taking this training? If it is to be better informed about the subject how can a one size fits all, out of date, video do that? Every one of the 50 states has a different local standard and laws concerning this subject. Many of the laws are the same except to a lawyer and a judge and therefore a jury. There was a case, in California I believe, where a boy was charged with rape because it took him over 30 seconds to withdraw after the girl changed her mind. Im aware of this because a similar law based on the California(?) law was presented to the general assembly in Illinois. Not every state, at the time Illinois had no such law, goes to this extreme. Local law has to be a part of the training if it is to be of any value IMO.

If on the other hand we are taking the training so we can flash a trained card and National can hide behind They were trained, its not our responsibility then the online video works great, we can pass around a copy of the answers and everyone will get 100%.

If we as presenters of training are to be asked to simply show the video and read the script then I say National should make ALL training online compatible. The people that dont have computers could sit in a room and watch a DVD and get a trained card as they leave. A District in my council just did SM/ASM specific training for 1 person. Training was scheduled years in advance (this district has its 2009 training calendar available online) 1 person signed up so training is held as promised. Wouldnt it be great if we could just send this leader a DVD and maybe he/she could take a short test later. Everyone could be a trained leader with little inconvenience.

LongHaul

(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[ScoutNut]

Actually the online training for YP does, and always has, addressed local laws. When they first put it out you had to enter thru your local council's website in order to have access to your state's information. Now there is a download on the national site that gives you your state/council info from your council.

 

The YPT is also updated periodically. I will usually check it out every few months to see if anything has changed & at times it has. I will also go thru the whole thing online yearly to re-certify.

 

Perhaps the online training will be updated to include "Ethical Abuse" in the near future. I find it unusual that a BSA video piece is more updated than their online version. Usually it is the other way around as it takes so long to create & distribute the materials.

 

There is no "one size fits all" training for anything, but in my opinion, the BSA online YPT does a pretty good job.

[LongHaul]

I came back here to delete my previous post but Scoutnut beat me here so I'll leave it. It is obvious from my post that I had not been to the online site in some time. As Scoutnut has posted here and in the other thread about YP the site has been greatly changed over the time it has been available. I have not finished reviewing the site, I logged off to correct my serious error here and am going back to for an indepth edification.

LongHaul

[Lisabob]

Yeah I actually like the online version pretty well. It is certainly better than the initial YP training I got, which was to sit in a darkened room, watch the video, and pick up a "trained" card on my way out. For that, I spent 2+ hours in the car driving to and from training?! Additionally, when you are dealing with an all-volunteer training staff you get some good, some bad, some really bad. At least with the online course everyone who takes it gets the same basic information, presented in a reasonably competent manner. So while there are always advantages to doing a well-taught "live" course in almost any subject, I've come to be an advocate for the online YPT as a reasonable substitution.

[jr56]

If anybody has a burning question that they can't get answered by online training, they can always address a question to their commissioner staff, or at the next roundtable. There are outlets available for unanswered questions.

[LongHaul]

The online site has been changed and no longer uses the old video as a base. While I will in the future recommend the online training more I still feel it needs serious work. Continuity seems to be lost, and some questions seem to be worded poorly. Question #4 If a child discloses abuse to you that has occurred within the Scouting Program you should first call his or her parents? True or False According to the online training the answer is false. If you remove the word first would that make it true? Cant ask that with the online training. Could the question as worded give some leaders the impression that the parents should not be notified? This is abuse which happened within the Scouting program so it would not generally be domestic or involving the parents, the parents are not the threat. In the section titled abuse, # 11 of 16 involves a cub scout that reports to a den leader and the instructions are to contact both the SE and civil authorities but further on Scenario 2 of 5 involves a Boy Scout that discloses the options are to contact the SE or continue asking questions so that you can give an accurate report to the civil authorities the online instructions are to contact the SE and not ask further questions of the boy. 4 of 5 specifically says not to try and investigate let the SE handle the situation. Again would this give the average adult attending the training the impression that they should not also contact the civil authorities? What is the difference between the Cub Scout reporting and the Boy Scout reporting? It is my experience that when confused people will do nothing.

As for the online training containing local or state laws, I see no evidence of that. When one down loads the local council reporting procedures it gives the local council procedures and in many cases these directly contradict the information previously given during the training. Chicago area council borders North West Suburban Council, NorthEast Illinois Council, Calumet Council among others. In viewing each local council reporting procedures the line If an immediate report is to be made due to extreme urgency... which leads me to believe this is a standard statement coming from National. What constitutes extreme urgency? Why does it seem to be present in the Cub Scout case but not the Boy Scout case? How does this relate to 2 of 5 and 4 of 5 which tells you to let the SE handle it?

I do feel that this is a good training and is better than just having a person watch the local YP training video without a presenter filling in details but it seems like a one size fits all attempt and is contradictory of itself and vague in definition so local standards can be applied but local standards are not given.

I would like to see National make the online version available for local presentation and loose the current video. I like the online approach, and see ways it could be adapted to local group presentation.

LongHaul

 

[willhi1979]

I think the on-line training the BSA has produced so far is good and bad. The YPT panel video that you saw in the instructor led training doesn't really prepare leaders and inform them on the policies well. It was the first one that I had ran that was instructor led in my District, I'm the training chair. If I run that again, I will not show that video and will work with the instructor to make it more relevant to the participants. Troop Committee Challenge is a horrible course on-line. A lot of the interaction and content is missing from it. I personally was able to complete it in 20 minutes, I've taken and taught the classroom course. I personally think that none of the Leader Specific Courses should be online except Fast Start, New Leader Essentials, and Youth Protection. I also think it's good to have the safety courses that require recertification on-line.(This message has been edited by willhi1979)

[Lisabob]

The reason I liked the Troop Committee Challenge online is because it is about three thousand times better than the "live" version of the training around here, which does not follow the syllabus and is often a "wing it" sort of deal. But yes, I can imagine where, done right, the live course would be much better. I'm just thoroughly sick of sitting through more bad, live trainings run by people who do not know how to teach anything to anyone and don't bother to put time into learning how, either.

[ASM162]

Lisa,

Most people who present "live" training are volunteers, who have jobs, kids, unit meetings, etc. They are usually asked to do the training because no one else is available, and in my experience,it is always requested at the last minute.

As for Troop Committee Challenge, I'd rather take it on-line. The course that I had originally taken was 3 hrs. long, spread over two district roundtables. The trainers were good, but I thought that 3 hrs was entirely too long for this type of course.

[RangerT]

Eamonn I concur with you 100%, especially after sitting through some extremely poor training sessions in the past years. Aside from specialcourses like Wood Badge and Kodiak, etc. I think all the rest of the basic leader courses could easily be done on line. This would result in all scout leaders getting the exact same information and National could control the quality of the presenters and the content being presented. An additional benefit might be a reduction in the number of arguments and misinformation given out in this forum, just a thought, lol.

[Lisabob]

ASM162, I realize that and I am sorry if my comment came across as a little bit harsh. But like most other trainees, I am also a volunteer with a family, a life, a job, and other scouter hats to wear, and I resent it when people waste my time with poorly executed training. Especially when it has all been laid out for them by national in a syllabus that they can't be bothered to look at, let alone follow.

 

The person who ran the troop committee training I attended announced that he'd been given exactly 10 minutes notice that he would be teaching, because the guy in charge forgot to tell him in advance - this poor volunteer trainer hadn't been active in years and had only just moved to the region from the other side of the country. Poor guy, I'm sympathetic to his plight. But I paid $20 for that training, arranged child care, drove 3 hours, and committed an entire Saturday for this. And this is not an isolated occurrence. I can count on one hand the number of people in our district who say "wow, I had this great training session recently" when asked. No, they practically always say "what a waste of time and why are we forced to pay for this garbage?" In comparison I'll take the online training any day because at least I know I'll get the basic content and besides it is free.

 

Don't tell me to start volunteering myself - I already am. I've been trying for almost a year now to convince our district cub training chair that there even IS a syllabus for cub leader specific training! And frankly, she's a big improvement over the last person to hold the job, who half the time didn't even show up for the courses he was supposed to be running (see above problem with the troop committee training as an example).

 

OK, rant off. Phew!

[SueM]

Personally, I think that the TCC needs to be done live and preferably to have as much of the troop committee as possible take it at the same time, to have the interaction that I think is necessary for it to really be successful.

 

It's my philosophy when I'm presenting something at a training event, that we only get -one- shot at teaching things correctly so we need to make it count. I do think though that allowing time for group interaction is part of what makes for a successful experience for participants and although we do try to stick to a time schedule as much as possible...that if we do happen to go overtime because of questions, etc. that it's worth it. It seems that the participants go away with a better grasp of things.

[John-in-KC]

ASM162,

 

Welcome to our Campfire. Coffee's over in the pot.

 

Lisa's a Woodbadger... a BobWhite in fact. She's been part of her District training team.

 

IIRC she's trying to fix TCC in her own District because of her frustration with the quality of training given.

 

You're right, we're almost all volunteers in this business. Even so, we need to place the right people in the right positions, where they can make a difference.

 

Garbage in, garbage out training only perpetuates the myth that Scoutings' training support is garbage. National furnishes us good stuff, but we have to learn how to facilitate groups, demonstrate, coach, and enable adult learning!

 

YIS John

A Good Old Owl Too...

C-40-05