Two Questions

[WDL Mom]

Hi All,

 

Our topic at Roundtable this week was training. After the discussion, I had two questions about things that didn't seem to jive with what I have heard from other sources. I would appreciate your input!

 

1. A Baloo trained person is required to attend Pack camp outs. Pack submits a Tour Permit without the required Baloo person. The Council incorrectly issues the Permit. Something "bad" happens on the trip.

 

The Tour Permit can be "retroactively denied" by the council and then the BSA insurance would NOT be in effect.

 

 

2. Webelos Specific Training is only "good" for two years. So if someone took the training in the fall of their Bear year, they would have to take it again in the fall of their Webelo II year...

 

I think there are trainings that are recommended to be on a two year cycle... YPT and isn't Safe Swim/Safety Afloat required every two years?

 

Thanks for the help!

[ScoutNut]

1) Once the Tour Permit is issued, it's issued. Period. Hopefully your council is taking the time to do their end of the BSA paperwork correctly & check the training records of the volunteers listed on the permit application. If not, then that is their fault, not the units.

 

2) Cub Scout Specific training (like New Leader Essentials) has no expiration date. Once you take the specific training for your level, & receive your "Trained" strip, you are considered trained for that level.

[GernBlansten]

Beavah, who I think is an officer of the court (at least from his writings on the topic), stated in another thread that the tour permit has nothing to do with BSA insurance coverage. I bow to his expertise.

[evmori]

Gern,

You remember correctly!

 

Safe Swim Defense & Safety Afloat are only good for two years. It is recommended YPT be taken every two years, but I don't think it is required.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[emb021]

"It is recommended YPT be taken every two years, but I don't think it is required."

 

Sigh.

 

For some things it is.

 

If you attend national events like Jamboree, NOAC, etc, you will be required to have 'current' YPT. How current is current? 1 year? 2? No answer. But since you can always get re-certified on-line its not as big as an issue as it used to be.

 

 

 

[epalmer84]

YPT re-certification is determined by the local council and/or by the chartering organization. Whichever has the shortest period is the one you have to go with. If the chartering organization has no policy, then you go with the council policy.

 

In Stonewall Jackson Area Council, YPT certification is two years.

 

Ed

Webmaster, Vally District, SJAC

[John-in-KC]

Agree with ScoutNut, but...

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to retaking training now and again, or becoming a trainer, or taking the same training from another District:

 

Disadvantage of course is TIME.

 

Advantages include, but aren't limited to:

- Different perspective on same subject.

- New wrinkles in the program covered.

- Reinforcement of primary points.

[kb6jra]

IMHO YPT should be re-taken every two or three years. My current council requires it be taken once and only once. My previous council gave it 3 years. I nag my parents into letting me offer it every two to the boys and adults. I do the adult training first then the boys, so when the boys have questions at home, mom and or dad know the rules and have some idea of the content.

 

The training listed on the Tour Permit shows your due dillegence in getting trained before taking young kids out camping, it also proves the due dillegence of the council by requireing that training before setting you loose on the big 'ol world. However, if someone lists a member of the pack as the trip leader and as having completed Baloo... and they haven't, the owness is on you. I believe ScoutNut is correct, once it's issued, it's issued unless the council specifically revokes it PRIOR to the event. Doing so afterwards would have no effect.

 

The BSA insurace is secondary to personal health insurance at any rate and usually doesn't get hit, only in extreme situations.

 

[Stosh]

I took Cub Scout Training over 10 years ago.

I took Webelos Training plus the Outdoor part over 10 year ago.

I took Wood Badge Training over 10 years ago.

I took Boy Scout Fundamentals over 10 years ago.

I took Venturing training 9 years ago.

 

I have achieved PhD level of University of Scouting about 7-8 years ago.

 

And after all that, no one has ever wondered whether I have kept up any re-certification along the way. I've never heard of it in our council. Once you are trained, you are trained.

 

One interesting side-note - I have learned more about scouting from the boys than I ever did sitting in a class or other training event. :^)

 

Stosh

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Mr Blake....

 

Tom Peters has made a career of saying the below. Having seen it in grad school and in the workplace, I believe it:

 

TRAIN AND RE-TRAIN CONSTANTLY.

 

There is always something to be learned. "John, a credential means you were the most brilliant guy in the world on the day you defended your dissertation." That comes to me from my dear late uncle, a distinguished professor emeritus of anatomy in the UC system.

 

Why do you think WB wants some many new members in each course staff? Retraining is part of staff development. It helps reinforce skills.

 

Assimilating lessons learned from being hands-on is good too. Why do you think the volunteer program invests so much energy in delivering tools to the line user of Scouting?

 

Train and re-train constantly. Revisit old ground, break new ground. If you're standing still, you are falling behind.